All Forums > SimLeague Hockey > SimLeague Hockey > Hockey Dynasty Status Update
9/24/2011 8:49 PM
yeah, i agree. the draft has to be early.  if it's not at the beginning of the season i say the 15-20 game mark.  beginning of season would be better if someone wanted to jump their first round pick right onto the ML club, but that may not happen in the dynasty as much as real life.  i'd like to see it start with resigning any of your own players (if willing) followed by FA Frenzy, probably four or five days.  at which time they could do the coach hiring thing too.  head coach, specialty teams (maybe broken up into powerplay and penalty killing), assistant coaches.  probably for each level.  and then follow that with the draft.  then exhibition where you can try out some of your draft picks.  then the big show.  pretty much like HBD with the draft moved up a lot.  :>

it would also open up the possibility of trading current season draft picks for a couple weeks before the draft if the draft is part way into the season.  i would say that trading future season draft picks might be problematic, but it's not really different than trading a blue chip prospect.  that's what the veto is for.  in fact, a blue chip prospect might actually be worth more, as you never know what kind of draft class you are gonna get, or what draft position you'll end up with in a future season.  :>
9/25/2011 9:45 AM
I'd say trading 'future' season pick..not possible and not mention VERY DANGEROUS!!  We have seen it in simple Prog/Reg Draft leagues, where an owner trades away a team's entire future for shot at the cup..when failing leaving!!!  So no way you could allow this...    Also I'd put a limit on # of picks that can be traded.

Yep very true..unlike real life where owners have an idea what is going to be available...you wouldn't. BUT this could be over come with generating the list of prospect AS world rolls over.  Once Schedule generate owners could see them.  Now during the pre season..wheel and deal time..
11/6/2011 9:28 PM
Why was this thread "un-pinned"? That doesn't give me a warm fuzzy. Either they don't think they need any ideas, or they aren't planning on having HKD? I don't like the implications...

As for trading draft picks, the only way to do it is to limit trades to years you have already signed up for the team. If you have already paid for three seasons, then you could trade a pick three years out, etc. That would be the only way to do it reasonably. Although, I would say you should only be able to trade the following season's picks, no matter what (and you would have to be signed up for another season). But that is just my opinion.

I don't know how they work it in HBD, but if they do allow trades, they must leave a mechanism for review. Otherwise, you would have someone create a bad team to come in last place, and then trade that #1 pick to his real team for a scrub. In GD, there are a lot of instances of guys having a second team in the same world to benefit their main team. It would happen.

I agree with aginor. The draft and freee agency must be at the beginning of the season. It would be the same as recruiting in GD. You don't want to leave such integral parts of creating your team til the end when some guys have lost interest and quit.

Let's go WIS. We need HOCKEY DYNASTY. It is the only way you are ever going to get another cent from me.
11/8/2011 3:55 PM (edited)
The problem with being able to trade future draft picks (even if you have "signed up" for future seasons) is that you could always just quit before those future draft picks happen.

There is a review mechanism for trades in HBD, and it works pretty well as long as at least a few owners in the world care about the integrity of the world.  And don't worry, no alias would be able to rear it's head in the world I commish.  I AM going to be a commish.

Also, I don't think this thread was ever pinned.  It was just kept at the top by interested posters.

11/8/2011 8:30 PM
C'mon Mike, no basketball season means more time to do the Hockey Dynasty.... ;o)
11/9/2011 9:34 AM
If this thread were never pinned, I have to ask, why was it not pinned, and the stupid WHA Players thread is?

11/20/2011 3:05 PM
I'll be honest, trading for draft picks is something that is a huge part in hockey and needs to be in the hockey dynasty sim. Even if HBD when you trade for prospects you know what you are getting, you can see the projections and even if they are a little off they are usually pretty accurate. Plus, players can under perform but it is usually very rare to have a player turn into an all star with terrible stats or vice versa.

If its the end of the year and a team makes a push for the playoffs and trades a first or second round draft pick that could be anything. The draft class may be amazing and they may be trading away a Corey Parry or Ryan Getzlaf or if the team getting the pick doesn't scout well enough the could end up with another Alexander Daigle...... or (ugh) Rick DiPietro. Thats one of the aspects that I beleive sets hockey apart from all other sports and sims. I know there is potential for teams to trade away and then stop playing the sim but again, there are methods to prevent that, 3 draft pick trades max at one time, must have future seasons purchased and locked into that team to trade draft picks. Make the vetoing be a percentage of votes rather then a percentage of owners in the league.

Example it takes 6 votes to veto a trade. Or 75% of all who voted. Example, I make a one sided trade, only 4 owners vote on the trade. If 3 of them veto then the trade is vetoed.
11/20/2011 4:55 PM
I like the idea regarding vetoing trades
11/22/2011 12:40 PM
yes, this thread used to be pinned.  :{
11/23/2011 7:51 AM
I know that trading draft picks is allowed in the NHL, but, as a vet HBDer, I have seen the damage that trading away the farm does to a franchise.  It takes many seasons for the franchises minor league system to recover.  It's not just about the season after the trade, but 3 or 4 seasons down the road after the trade that are affected.
11/23/2011 2:19 PM
HBD follows actual MLB rules...Trading of draft picks is not allowed AND you are not allowed to trade a player the season he is drafted.  ALSO MLB is very unique with it's Draft as to when it's held - Mid season.  All other major professional sport leagues it's done between seasons.  

WIS would want the system to mirror the NHL as closely as possible.  The time of the Draft and ability to trade picks is with out a doubt a tricky thing to incorporate. 
I don't think the trading of future picks can be allowed. Remember WIS has to ensure things are on some of what of a level playing field... That would not be the case if a new owner came into a league and the team he took over didn't have a 1st round pick etc.  He starts at a disadvantage and there is NO WAY WIS can allow this.   There is no guarantee the player that was received for the pick is in organization anymore.."Rent-a-Player"  playoff run etc...

Not only that but it opens itself up to a TON of abuse.  If you don't think so, just ask anyone who has seen the stunts people have pulled in HBD, not to mentioned the stuff done in Progressive leagues etc.

So the only thing you could allow is the trading of picks in an upcoming draft only.  Trades DONE before the draft.  Note as in HBD, the draft would NOT be a live draft.  That is not possible..
11/23/2011 5:08 PM
If the draft is held in the preseason, you'd probably have only a day or two to work out a deal involving draft picks.  I could live with that.  As for future picks, NO FRICKIN' WAY!
11/24/2011 7:38 AM
Exactly..no way I'd want it.  To be honest I can't see WIS allowing it either..biggest reason (stated in my post above).  

As mentioned WIS does try to mirror MLB with it's HBD product..but there are departures due to keeping a level playing field etc and abuse issues.  So the same would go with  a Hockey dynasty game.  

Another thing you wouldn't see is the 'infamous' Future Considerations!  Again no way WIS could allow such an 'open ended' thing.  Let's face it..if you think trading of future picks is subject to abuse, that would be NOTHING compared what people would do with that one!!! 
11/24/2011 3:36 PM
Again, if I had a contending team and knew I was sticking around but needed to purchase my next season to trade my next years first round draft pick I would do it in a heartbeat. As long as you have signed on for those future seasons I see no reason why trading those draft picks should be a problem.
11/24/2011 4:58 PM (edited)

Firstly..there are no guarantees.  You very well may intend to return but 'stuff' (or real life) happens.  Also the other problem is... you sign him BUT at what cost???  We see a lot of this in HBD where owners sign guys for MAX type contracts etc etc and then couple of seasons down the road  BYE BYE.  So you have an owner who season after season trades away picks to take a 'shot'.  Unsuccessful..he leaves. Hard to find a new owner for these kinds of messes:  A lot of expensive & long term contracts (aging vets), no Major League prospects in the minors..etc etc etc   While this can be fixed, we're talking several season to do it.  Finding an owner willing to take on such project..not easy. Some who join not realizing the how much work & time...don't stay etc etc   Trust me it's the biggest problem in HBD.

Remember Hockey, I know you and you I would trust with something like trading future picks BUT there are a LOT of people who will abuse it.  It's these people are ones that make it something you can't allow.   If you think they wouldn't...I'll start giving you examples of some of the 'sh*t' owners have done in HBD.   
 

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