Posted by deanod on 12/20/2011 11:01:00 PM (view original):
Sefolosha's not starting because he's better than Harden, nor is OKC disillusioned to believe so.  Rather, they have 2 mega high usage guys in their starting lineup and a bunch of defensive role players, so it only makes sense to stagger the scoring a bit and bring him off the bench.

A much more comparable situation would be Ginobili playing behind Roger Mason (not that Harden is quite on Manu's level at this stage of his career).

This is exactly right.

People need to chill out on Westbrook.  For a little perspective here is DWade and Russell Westbrook at the the similar ages that are available.  These are their ages at the start of the NBA season:

	REB	AST	STL	PTS
Age 21	4.8	8	1.3	16.1
Age 22	4.6	8.2	1.9	21.9

	REB	AST	STL	PTS
Age 21	4.1	4.5	1.4	16.2
Age 22	5.1	6.8	1.6	24.1

Which one is Westbrook?  Which one is Wade?  Which one of these stat lines would you rather have from your young guard?  The argument could be made that Wade is a shoot guard and not a point guard, but the offense was going through Wade just as much as OKC's go through Westbrook.  I am not saying Westrook > Wade.  I am saying his career is on the right track and a little immaturity from a 22 year old in his first deep run in the playoffs is not a big deal.

Posted by topoftheworl on 12/21/2011 3:30:00 AM (view original):
People need to chill out on Westbrook.  For a little perspective here is DWade and Russell Westbrook at the the similar ages that are available.  These are their ages at the start of the NBA season:

	REB	AST	STL	PTS
Age 21	4.8	8	1.3	16.1
Age 22	4.6	8.2	1.9	21.9

	REB	AST	STL	PTS
Age 21	4.1	4.5	1.4	16.2
Age 22	5.1	6.8	1.6	24.1

Which one is Westbrook?  Which one is Wade?  Which one of these stat lines would you rather have from your young guard?  The argument could be made that Wade is a shoot guard and not a point guard, but the offense was going through Wade just as much as OKC's go through Westbrook.  I am not saying Westrook > Wade.  I am saying his career is on the right track and a little immaturity from a 22 year old in his first deep run in the playoffs is not a big deal.

This comparison is useless without percentages.  FG, 3PT, and FT would be nice

Posted by topoftheworl on 12/21/2011 3:01:00 AM (view original):

Posted by deanod on 12/20/2011 11:01:00 PM (view original):
Sefolosha's not starting because he's better than Harden, nor is OKC disillusioned to believe so.  Rather, they have 2 mega high usage guys in their starting lineup and a bunch of defensive role players, so it only makes sense to stagger the scoring a bit and bring him off the bench.

A much more comparable situation would be Ginobili playing behind Roger Mason (not that Harden is quite on Manu's level at this stage of his career).

This is exactly right.

+2

Someone obviously has a beef with harden.

Posted by topoftheworl on 12/21/2011 3:30:00 AM (view original):
People need to chill out on Westbrook.  For a little perspective here is DWade and Russell Westbrook at the the similar ages that are available.  These are their ages at the start of the NBA season:

	REB	AST	STL	PTS
Age 21	4.8	8	1.3	16.1
Age 22	4.6	8.2	1.9	21.9

	REB	AST	STL	PTS
Age 21	4.1	4.5	1.4	16.2
Age 22	5.1	6.8	1.6	24.1

Which one is Westbrook?  Which one is Wade?  Which one of these stat lines would you rather have from your young guard?  The argument could be made that Wade is a shoot guard and not a point guard, but the offense was going through Wade just as much as OKC's go through Westbrook.  I am not saying Westrook > Wade.  I am saying his career is on the right track and a little immaturity from a 22 year old in his first deep run in the playoffs is not a big deal.

Eh, doesn't really work to compare 3rd year > rookie year.

Westbrook's really good, but he needs to improve his shot selection and/or 3 pt shooting to be elite.  He also could stand to devote a bit more energy to defense.

He has all the tools to be better than Derrick Rose imo, but as of right now he needs to work on some things to keep pace.  And a lot of guys go for entire careers with questionable shot selection and lackadaisacal D, so it's not a given that he automatically improves in those facets.

They are just one year off, not two. Westbrook's rookie year was at the age of 20.

I conced the point on defensive energy.

Westbrook's FG percentage has increased about 30 points a year every year so far. Clearly he got caught up a bit in the moment in the playoffs, but the wider trend says that what you ask is occurring.

To answer Malone's point, Wade's FG percentages were about 50 points higher although both players were improving at almost the exact same rate. Westbrook's 3 point percentage was significantly better (100's of points) and Westbrook's FT percentages were better as well (.800's vs. ,700's),

aly=top. Too lazy to switch back or explain why I have an HBD account and a GD account.

The increase in his FG% has stemmed from improving at finishing at the rim, he still could stand to choose better shots.

Posted by deanod on 12/21/2011 2:38:00 PM (view original):
The increase in his FG% has stemmed from improving at finishing at the rim, he still could stand to choose better shots.

Fair enough.  What makes me happy is that his shooting percentage rose as his shots taken rose.

Nate Robinson got waived and some dude named Ryan Reid made the team. His stats sucked even in college, apparently he's a good M2M defender.

From dailythunder.com

Orlando Magic (0-0, 0-0 road) vs. Oklahoma City Thunder (0-0, 0-0 home)

TV: ESPN (Cox 29, HD 720)
Stream: Click here
Radio: WWLS The Sports Animal (98.1 FM, 640 AM, 97.1 FM Tulsa)
Time: 7:00 CT

Offensive Rating: Thunder – 000.0 (t-1st), Magic– 000.0 (t-1st)
Defensive Rating: Thunder – 000.0 (t-1st), Magic – 000.0 (t-1st)
Pace: Thunder – 00.0 (t-1st), Magic – 00.0 (t-1st)

View from the enemy: Magic Basketball

Basketball! Today! For serious!

The balleyhooed, hyped, anticipated 2011-12 season starts tonight for the Thunder against a high quality opponent. You may think the Magic are a bit down and out just because of all the Dwight Howard noise, but that’s a top five or six Eastern Conference team and one with the best big in all of basketball. Meaning, if you think in any way this should just be taking care of business for Oklahoma City, you’re way wrong.

Orlando coming in: The Magic went 1-1 in preseason versus the Heat.

Three Big Things

1. Perk on Dwight Howard. Can the slimmer Kendrick Perkins handle Howard in the post? If yes, the Thunder should coast. If no, the Magic could get their deadly inside-out game going and sink OKC.

2. Who checks KD? The Magic really don’t have a good defender to put on Kevin Durant. Hedo Turkoglu? Jason Richardson? Orlando could be watching Durant go off on them today.

3. The Thunder in the halfcourt. I get the feeling Oklahoma City wants to run more than usual and at times, the Thunder are relentless in transition. But beating teams like Orlando happens in the halfcourt. Can OKC execute enough to get it done?

Live (sort of) blog Thunder vs. Magic on Christmas.  All times Alaska Standard Time

4:21  KD get's the first shot.  Good the first choice RW.
4:23 Both teams look crisper than I expected.
4:24  Thabo!
4:28  Here we go.  Athletic plays leading to easy buckets.  Westbrook looks in control.  This could be nice 7-0 run.
4:31  Three bad possessions in a row, here comes Harden.  Right move.
4:32 Perkins is moving.  Didn't do much with it and picked up two fouls, but he is moving MUCH better than last season.
4:35 Crap non-call on Howard.  Foul right of the bat on Durant where never touched him and then Howard across both arms and no call?
4:41  Not sure anyone on the Thunder knows what to do when nothing seems to be happening on offense better than Harden.
4:43 Bench got the lead for us in the final portion of the 1st quarter.  Have to like that.
4:46 Neither team can hit an open shot to save their life.
4:47  Thunder BENCH causes a stop-the-run time out.  Harden and Maynor are playing fantastic!  It will be interesting to see if the Thunder come back with Westbrook and Durant or keep going with what is currently working.  I would probably put the big guys back in, but I am curious.  Howard is the best player out there tonight, but he doesn't have a ton of help so far.  Anderson is playing o.k., but that is about it.
4:53  "Harden could start on a lo of teams"  Really?  You think?  How about all of them?  Maybe not the Celts.  He's the Thunder's 3rd best player.
4:56 And the lead hits 15.  Right now the Thunder seem to have the 2nd-6th best players out there.
4:57  And when Durant gets that nasty there is no one who has ever played that can stop him.  The lead is 15 at the moment, but more importantly, this line up is just tough to stop.  Westbrook-Harden-Durant-Collison-Perkins.  Four people that can pass, three that can shoot.  Decent defense at every position.
5:03  Here it comes.  Westbrook makes two bad choices in a row.  Here come the doubters.  Forget the rest of the game before now, two bad choices and that will be it.
5:06  Harden has 9 points and has only taken one shot.
5:09  Second obvious foul on a Westbrook drive not called.
5:11 Killer post up move from KD.
5:13  Nice drive-alley op (sp?) combo Westbrook-Harden to end the half.
Up 14 at the half, but it doesn't seem like we are playing that well.  More just the Magic making bad choices and some fantastic bench play.  I'd like to see us make a few more open shots, and we still some other Harden to break us out of the slumps when we haven't made a basket 3 possessions in a row.  Collison really is the Greek God of the +/-.  +17 in 11 minutes.  Also, +5 on rebounds at the half.  Considering Howard is on the other squad that is a good sign.  Also surprised the name "Ibaka" has not come up yet.
5:34 And that is why he is Russell Westbrook and I am not. Gets doubled, Tries to pass to Perkins, someone gets a n hand on it and begins to steal, some gets there, steals it back, grabs it and lays it in.
5:36 Ryan Anderson is better than I realized.
5:37  Durant is playing stronger than last season.  I have no idea if he is stronger, but that combined with his balance is making him more effective in the post than I remember him being last season.
5:38 Perkins is going to kill someone at some point.  I am not sure how basketball helpful that is.
5:41  Magic are making a run.  Lead down from 20 to 12.
5:43  Down to 10.  Time out should have been called 4 points ago.  The Thunder have stopped moving without the ball at all and the Magic's defense has improved.  Not at good combination.  8-0 Magic run.
5:47  Get Westbrook out of the game.  He's just off.  Not bad choices, just off.
5:47  Ibaka woke up
5:48  Thabo!
5:51  Never has there been a player who I have called out "terrible shot. . .nevermind" than KD
5:52  Two hustle steels in a row, building the lead back up (15)
5:57  Nice game for Maynor
6:05  Harden has dominated every single end-of-quarter including this one.  6 points in the last 3 possessions.
6:15  The Thunder bench just secured the 5th seed in the East ;)
6:20  Westbrook is back and is doing Westbrook things again.  Yeah!
Overall impressions.  Nice win.  Bench seemed to have better ball movement than the first team.  Harden seemed like he had the best game.  Durant scored the most points, but seemed to disappear from time-to-time.  Westbrook had 4 plays tonight that most point guards couldn't dream of making and he lead the team in rebounds.  On the other hand he more unforced errors than anyone else.  He didn't seem to be putting putting up shots that he didn't have any business taking.  Anyway, I shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth.  A solid win is a solid win.

I'm probably biggest Westbrook defender around, but it's a bit painful with some of those turnovers. He needs to slow down when setting up the halfcourt offense. I didn't realize he only shot 6-17 until I looked at the box score. I only recall one shot that he forced up, the rest seemed to make sense in the flow of the offense. He got a raw deal with the lack of foul calls.

Loved the 3 point shooting. Thabo and Maynor made a few, hopefully that's not an aberration. That's a huge weakness from last season.

Perkins looked more than a potted plant on offense, which is a change. He was calling for the ball with Howard on him, thought that was quite funny.

Not the greatest game, and if Orlando hit a few more open 3's it could've been a loss. BTW, Howard put up 39 and 40 vs OKC last season, and 11 in this game.

Maybe.  I felt like they went into the prevent defense in the last 4 minutes.    I never felt like Orlando was the better team that day.

OKC Thunder (1-0, 0-0 road) at Minnesota Timberwolves (0-0, 0-0 home)

TV: FS Oklahoma (Cox 37, HD 722)
Stream: Click here
Radio: WWLS The Sports Animal (98.1 FM, 640 AM, 97.1 FM Tulsa)
Time: 7:00 CT

Offensive Rating: Thunder – 104.3 (5th), Wolves– 000.0 (t-30th)
Defensive Rating: Thunder – 95.7 (3rd), Wolves – 000.0 (t-30th)
Pace: Thunder – 93.0 (6th), Wolves – 00.0 (t-30th)

View from the enemy: A Wolf Among Wolves

Does this game feel trap-ish to you, or is that just me? A supposedly improved Wolves team with a great coach led by a bunch of exciting new players and with Oklahoma City coming off a game and long trip the night before — feels dangerous, doesn’t it?

Minnesota coming in: It’s the opener for the Wolves, who went 2-0 in the preseason against the Bucks.

Three Big Things

1. Rubio Fever. I won’t lie; I’m excited to watch Ricky Rubio. There was so much hype and buzz surrounding him before the 2009 draft, it got to the point where I started wondering what it would be like to have him running point alongside Westbrook and Durant. He’s not starting tonight, but will play plenty. I’m curious if he’ll be able to handle Westbrook at all, or if the Thunder will run Ricky ragged.

2. Rebounding. Obviously Kevin Love can be a monster inside, but like Perk, shed a bunch of weight in the offseason to re-discover some old athleticism. Serge Ibaka wasn’t much of a factor against the Magic, but will be called upon to battle Love on the boards in this one. The Wolves want to run, gun shoot 3s and share the ball, but they’re a premier rebounding group with Love inside. Give Minnesota a lot of second chances and you’ll give them the game.

3. Fatigue. You’d think it wouldn’t be an issue because it’s just the second game and the Thunder should be fresh and ready. Still, it was a late flight to Minneapolis last night and it’s not exactly an ideal back-to-back going from OKC to Minnesota.

Tip at 7:00 CT. Go Thunder Ups.

4:14  The Minnesota court looks weird with the two tone thing going on
4:16 Love on Ibaka,  Love gets round one.
4:18  Ibaka's shot looks nice tonight.  Good form, not forced.  Swish.
4:19  Thabo with the aggressive drive.  That would be cool to see more of that.
4:19 Ibaka with the good feed.  Thabo with the immediate shot.  Missed, but it all looked nice.
4:20  Westbrook with the incredible burst through three Timberwolves, gets the foul makes the free throws.  Russell at his best.
4:22 Darko is the best Timberwolve on the floor so far.  Moving well, making shots
4:23 I know I am a Thunder fan, but how about Darko kicking Perkin's butt layed him out.
4:25 Westbrook's air ball makes six missed shots in a row I think.  These are the funks I worry about.  No ball movement, no crashing the boards, long jump shot after long jump shot.  Now Durant just missed a spot up 3 with 21 seconds on the shot clock.  The bench yesterday would miss shots, but they were missing good shots.  This is the second time the starters have gotten in one of these funks in two games.  Its early in the season, but something to watch.  Its almost like everyone is so athletic that they all try to do it themselves.
4:29  Fifth possession in a row without an offensive rebound.  At least the ball movement is better since the timeout.
4:35  Durant with the rare selfish move.  Dives into three Wolves, has Thabo and Westbrook open on the wings, takes the contested shot, grazes rim.
4:37  Westbrook and Ibaka with a rebound on the same play.  This is more like it.
4:39 Rubio makes his debut
4:40  Thunder 1 for their last 12 as Durant misses another 3.  Thunder are the more athletic team, but you are not going to win if you can't shoot.
4:42  1 for the last 14.  Yet the Thunder are only down 1.  Is that a good sign?  It was a nice dish, but Harden, but he had the 6 footer, he probably should have taken it.  Ibaka only had a slightly nice shot and he isn't the shooter Harden is.
4:44 Some how I didn't notice that Beasly has 60% of Minne's points
4:48 Thunder looked awful in the first.  They are very lucky to only be down by one.  Sure they were quick and long and all of the things that don't go away, but shot selection, offensive aggressiveness, and shotting must improve if they are going to go anywhere.
4:56 Clearly someone told the the Thunder that 3-pointers are worth 7 or something, because that is all they are taking.
4:58  Rubio finally does something nifty. Not impresed so far, but he's a few minutes into his NBA career.
5:00  When the Wolves score three people are involved.  When the Thunder score its individual great move.  We cannot win playing like this.
5:04 Alright Rubio has some skills when on the run.
5:05  Honestly, how are the Thunder not down by 10?
5:08  Westbrook says enough.  He has spearheaded the attack on the last three possessions.  Not always the best choice, but with everyone else settling for long jump shots at least we are getting points now.
5:10  Harden with the aggressive move down the middle.  Game tied.  I know we are playing in Minnesota, but I swear the scorekeeper is slipping us points.
5:13  Finally KD hits a 3.
5:14  Durant to Harden to Westbrook for the lay in!  Where have you been all my life?
5:15  Perkins lob to KD.  5 point lead.  14-2 in less than than 3 minutes.  Thunder at their best.
5:18 Ibaka with another block, but he still doesn't seem in rhythm
5:19 Much better play now.  Even their unsuccessful trips down the court require great individual plays by the Timberwolves (Beasly blocks Thabo)
5:20  Both teams are playing a little out of control as the half ends.  Two turnovers for both teams in the last minute.
5:27 The Thunder slow it down, but stay aggressive.  Harden and then Westbrook score on dribble drives.  Thunder up by 6 at the half.
5:41  4 straight jump shots made.  I hope that is a good sign.  I hope it doesn't lead to offensive laziness and 3 point shot after 3 point shot.
5:44  Hyper athletic steal by Westbrook leads to two shots for Durant
5:45  Collison with the open 17 footer don't take it. . .nevermind
5:47  Still not sure who that Westbrook pass was to.  no blue jerseys in the area
5:48 Here comes Mineesota, three straight bad possessions for OKC and three scores for Minne
5:49 Make that four straight scores for Minne
5:51 KD makes shots I can't!
5:56 KD makes another great shot single handling keep the Thunder in front
6:01 The Thunder have stopped playing defense at all.  Three straight easy baskets for the T-Wolves.
6:08  Lost my direct tv feed for 5 minutes :(
6:13  Unless my eyes are tricking me Collison has taken over the game!  Great drive, great dish, takes the charge!
6:15  Durant has made 7 shots in a row, but his defense is non-existent at the moment.
6:17  T-Wolves are just hanging around.  Never more than 4 down.  Be careful Thunder, this is how you lose games.
6:20 T-Wolves take the lead.  With the way the Thunder offense is stagnating, they may not give it up.
6:24  Who the heck did Westbrook **** off?  2 straight charge calls.  The first was questionable and the second was down right criminal.  Love wasn't even facing Westbrook yet much less set.  Crock of crap call.
6:28 The good ball movement came back in the nick of time.  Harden sets Perkins up for the easy lay up.  Thabo no look to Westbrook.  Shot is off before I even know what is going on.
6:32  Westbrook misses the key shot, but its the Thunder at their worse.  No off ball movement, no choice but to make a contested pass or the shot.
6:33 Perkins with the huge stop, rebound, and then free throws.

Another win, but again not a comfortable one.  Not a lot of flow, periods of complete stagnation, but at least we won.  A road win against an improved team.  I guess I can only complain so much.