All Forums > Hardball Dynasty Baseball > Classifieds > New: "For Life" (Final Update Re: Recruiting)
2/6/2011 11:55 PM
The more I think about it, the more I dislike the idea of free agency at all. Think of a league where the owners have exclusive rights to a player; all contracts are for life. For one, this keeps the player cards clean and truly emphasizes the "for life" concept. Two, i think it's a good thing to be able to wait until after fa to sign our players- managing player salaries is not what this league about. You shoukd never have to give up a player because you can't afford him. What this league is about is acquiring players when they're 18-22 and then having sole rights to them for their whole lives. Thus, even if a player is released, his rights still belong only to his initial team, and that team can choose to re-sign him down the road or allow him to sit at home until his skills dwindle to nothingness. In addition, I don't like the rule 5 draft simply because it takes away from the for life concept. Owners should be able to stockpile as many prospects as they want (as we will have strict tanking rules, this will not be an issue.) so, to recap, players may only play for one franchise throughout their careers- period. I think this is the best overall way to maintain the roster consistency and player-team attachments upon which the platform of this league is based.
2/6/2011 11:58 PM
There ya' go, straight from the captain. ;-)
2/7/2011 3:22 AM
Well, this is only slighlty problematic.

Perhaps not in the later stages, although I'd suggest that it becomes more of a problem, but whatever.

But early on, a LOT of franchises have pretty big holes that cannot be filled without free agency. talent isn't distributed to eaxh team evenly -- some teams have great minors and nothing at the ml level. Basically, you're guaranteeing some teams are going to be terrible by not allowing improvement after ST or whenever. And, while later on you might -- and I'm stressing might here -- be able to blame that on the owner, it is absolutely not that person's fault early on.
2/7/2011 7:30 AM
I can see the allure of having no players change teams whatsoever, but I don't think that allowing free agency after the FA period and released players being fair game will mean that any star players will be changing cities.  It will just make for some less good players filling holes on the less good teams.
2/7/2011 8:14 AM
As far as it being luck of the draw early on, you're absolutely right. But, this is a marathon, not a sprint. Plus, I'm a gambling man. For me, it's kind of appealing to rely on the cards you're dealt. Also, with no players changing teams whatsoever, it adds to the strategy dynamic in ifa. Do I go for depth in my organization or blow it all on the next babe ruth?
2/7/2011 10:39 AM
i would definitely be interested. i, for one, like the rule 5 draft as a great leveller. would like to see free agency kept , but reduced somewhat. again, definitely interested.
2/7/2011 10:48 AM
Posted by shobob on 2/7/2011 7:30:00 AM (view original):
I can see the allure of having no players change teams whatsoever, but I don't think that allowing free agency after the FA period and released players being fair game will mean that any star players will be changing cities.  It will just make for some less good players filling holes on the less good teams.
I gotta agree w/shobob here.
2/7/2011 12:39 PM
yeah have to agree with shobob.
2/7/2011 12:52 PM (edited)
I would love a spot if you still have one for me. Thanks

Edit

"There will be NO trades allowed" Sorry I missed that part. I will have to pass. Why would anyone want to be a GM that can not make moves. The guys the get stuck with the bad teams from the start. Better be ready to loose for a while. Going to be a long road to turn a team around. Would work better if you got to draft your players. 
2/7/2011 12:52 PM
I read the original post a few days ago, and would be interested.  Please place me under consideration.
2/7/2011 1:13 PM
I would be interested as well. 
2/7/2011 2:47 PM
Posted by pstrnutbag44 on 2/7/2011 10:48:00 AM (view original):
Posted by shobob on 2/7/2011 7:30:00 AM (view original):
I can see the allure of having no players change teams whatsoever, but I don't think that allowing free agency after the FA period and released players being fair game will mean that any star players will be changing cities.  It will just make for some less good players filling holes on the less good teams.
I gotta agree w/shobob here.
it's not just about star players. it's about developing lasting bonds with all of your players, from your ace to your left-handed platooning utility man. i just really like the idea of acquiring ALL of your players through ifa and the draft (excluding the guys you're initially given, of course), and then holding onto them for their careers without any financial pressures at all. to me, the league just downright really loses a lot if you allow players to switch teams at all. again, the point has been made that certain teams will be better off than others for a couple of years. this is undoubtedly true, but it's so much cooler if you play the hand you're dealt. we have to give up any pre-conceived notions of whole hbd normally works, or whole the eal world normally works.

if it helps you guys visualize it better, picture it this way:

the for life league was founded in the year 2030 after the death of major league baseball. in the mlb, player transactions became so prevalent that fans never developed bonds with the players of their team; the rosters were flipping over so much that teams were unrecognizable from one year to the next. thus, attendance and revenues plummeted and the league filed for bankruptcy.

the for life league was founded by a group of 32 investors led by the innovative mark cuban. cuban, being an owner, naturally was weary of the trending exorbitant player salaries that were crippling team's pocket books and alienating the blue collar workers that by whom america was built. thus, cuban stipulated in the initial league rule handbook that bargaining would be removed from players and their agents. however, it would not be solely in the hands of the owners either, as this would lead to a monopolization of power. thus, cuban and the other owners employed an independent financial consulting company to analyze a player's skills and production and determine what the player's wages should be. (this is the number you see when you negotiate contracts.) 

moreover, cuban noted what killed the mlb- an atrocious lack of consistency throughout the league. thus, the league rule handbook says that a team owns a player's rights FOR LIFE. and, because an independent consulting company decides player salaries, this does not contrast with the government's labor laws. 

but how would the league initially divide the players amongst the teams? well, randomly of course! (cuban would have loved to have a draft of players, but this was logistically impossible because league planner tom zentmeyer just could not create a good system to have the draft (do we draft prospects with the big leaguers? who picks first overall? first in the second round? etc.) cuban knew that this would create a small talent discrepancy and a "luck of the draw" effect for the first couple of years. yet, cuban understood that ABSOLUTELY NO transactions could take place in the league. that was the very foundation of cuban's innovative new league, and any mitigating circumstances at all would completely invalidate the league's dream of roster consistency and the "for life" policy.

so, the year is 2030. cuban has founded the league, and is now looking for 31 other owners to join him in a radical attempt to create a league unlike anything ever seen before. the question is, do you wish to join him? do you wish to rewrite hbd history? 
2/7/2011 3:30 PM

I do wonder a bit about the catch-22 for teams that get bad draws.  I have no manner by which to improve my team other than the draft and IFA, a process that will take about 4 seasons to reap any benefits from.  Because I have literally nothing to work with and no means of bringing in outside talent (as you describe it, empiire), I budget low and pay my players much less than I would have to in a normal league.  Therefore I attack IFA every year, draft in the top 5 for 2-3 seasons.  Not really sure how I could be accused of tanking because I'm playing the best talent available to me--it just sucks.  Come Season 5 or so however, I am flush with young talent, whose salaries will never spiral out of control as they hit arb/FA/etc.  How is this scenario avoided?

2/7/2011 3:38 PM
Posted by soursurfer on 2/7/2011 3:30:00 PM (view original):

I do wonder a bit about the catch-22 for teams that get bad draws.  I have no manner by which to improve my team other than the draft and IFA, a process that will take about 4 seasons to reap any benefits from.  Because I have literally nothing to work with and no means of bringing in outside talent (as you describe it, empiire), I budget low and pay my players much less than I would have to in a normal league.  Therefore I attack IFA every year, draft in the top 5 for 2-3 seasons.  Not really sure how I could be accused of tanking because I'm playing the best talent available to me--it just sucks.  Come Season 5 or so however, I am flush with young talent, whose salaries will never spiral out of control as they hit arb/FA/etc.  How is this scenario avoided?

from what i've seen from our new league ulb, there is some talent discrepancy but it's not enormous. the real discrepancy has occurred through trades. if a team does wind up last every year, they're either pretty awful or tanking. that's why we'll have a committee. if a team loses a ridiculous amount of games or many seasons in a row, the committee will look at a team's roster and see if they were doing their best. i.e., if you're in last place, and you've got a stud prospect at aaa who has had 4 years of development, i've got a problem with that. there's no reason with this league's rules to leave a stud in the minors when he's ready for the show. 
2/7/2011 3:47 PM
Not all leagues are generated quite so even.  I may not be trying to lose through the manner you described, but if I have poor ML talent and young prospects who are several years away to begin, I'm going to finish in the bottom 5 for 3+ years while my worthwhile players ascend through my system...because my team which wasn't very good to begin with can only get better via what's in my minors.  If I draft well, snag a strong IFA each year, I'm gonna be almost impossible to beat (for a long time).  Normally teams that build from within like that can be combatted by other teams going out and snagging expensive FA to give their roster an instant boost.  That won't happen in this world.  It seems like it might turn into a race to the bottom, and I don't have to openly tank to get there, just have to draw the right hand at world generation.  The idea has some merits and is intriguing, but this would worry me as a prospective owner.  It's bad enough controlling tanking in normal worlds.  Here it seems almost inevitable (not "tanking" in the classical sense but being unable to compete until suddenly your roster is a juggernaut).
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All Forums > Hardball Dynasty Baseball > Classifieds > New: "For Life" (Final Update Re: Recruiting)

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