3/31/2011 2:31 PM

The name of pitch is irrelevant to gameplay and effectiveness, not to what the pitch actually is.  The pitch is actually a knuckleball, even if it's not worth anything.

He wants to know if anyone has seen only two pitches, knuckleball and a fastball.  I'm not sure what the big ******* deal is.

3/31/2011 2:37 PM (edited)
The pitch is actually not a knuckleball.  The pitch is just a pitch.  One, of up to five.  Is that a difficult concept for you to grasp?

3/31/2011 2:36 PM
tecwrg:  Your reading of his questions is not compelled by the text.  Rangerup is looking for a quality pitcher who features the knuckleball; the question of whether s/he believes that pitch type is relevant to the sim is not answered by the post. 

Also, pitch type is irrelevant in baseball, all that matters is its effectiveness.  But people still like to talk about pitch types because it is interesting.
3/31/2011 2:39 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 3/31/2011 2:37:00 PM (view original):
The pitch is actually not a knuckleball.  The pitch is just a pitch.  One, of up to five.  Is that a difficult concept for you to grasp?

The logic fail is incredible.
3/31/2011 2:40 PM
Pitch type is relevant to "real" baseball, as any catcher who's handled (or tried to handle) a "true knuckleballer" would probably attest to.
3/31/2011 2:41 PM
Posted by isack24 on 3/31/2011 2:39:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 3/31/2011 2:37:00 PM (view original):
The pitch is actually not a knuckleball.  The pitch is just a pitch.  One, of up to five.  Is that a difficult concept for you to grasp?

The logic fail is incredible.
Please explain it to me, then.  Use the smallest words possible so that my simple mind can understand.
3/31/2011 2:46 PM
Yes, I almost amended my answer to include that pitch type is relevant to both catcher defense and an umpire's perception of the strike zone, but I am not certain that either of these changes my opinion, as both are issues of effectiveness.  In the pitcher/batter duel, a catcher's ability to handle the pitch, or the ump's perception of its movements through the strikes zone, are both measures/constraints of its effectiveness.  Neither, strictly speaking, impact the batter's ability to get wood on the pitch.

Maybe this is way off base, I don't know. 
3/31/2011 2:50 PM

My Cuban player is actually not from Cuba.  Why?  Because he's fake.  He's not even a "he."  None of this is real.  But the game labels it as a knuckeball, so whether that affects anything other than the label isn't the issue. 

What if he had asked this question: I want to know if anyone has seen a pitcher with a "pitch [that] is just a pitch" that happens to be labeled a knuckeball and a "pitch [that] is just a pitch" that happens to be labeled a fastball? 

Would you have been less of an *** about it?

 

3/31/2011 3:00 PM (edited)
Posted by tedwmoore on 3/31/2011 2:46:00 PM (view original):
Yes, I almost amended my answer to include that pitch type is relevant to both catcher defense and an umpire's perception of the strike zone, but I am not certain that either of these changes my opinion, as both are issues of effectiveness.  In the pitcher/batter duel, a catcher's ability to handle the pitch, or the ump's perception of its movements through the strikes zone, are both measures/constraints of its effectiveness.  Neither, strictly speaking, impact the batter's ability to get wood on the pitch.

Maybe this is way off base, I don't know. 
I'll disagree.  The effectiveness of the pitch with respect to the hitter ends when it is either hit, or crosses the plate untouched.  If catcher Smith can master handling the knuckler, while catcher Jones struggles (i.e. passed balls), then it's not a question of pitch effectiveness.  It's a question of catcher effectiveness.  Same pitch, possible different result based on the catcher.
3/31/2011 2:58 PM
Posted by isack24 on 3/31/2011 2:50:00 PM (view original):

My Cuban player is actually not from Cuba.  Why?  Because he's fake.  He's not even a "he."  None of this is real.  But the game labels it as a knuckeball, so whether that affects anything other than the label isn't the issue. 

What if he had asked this question: I want to know if anyone has seen a pitcher with a "pitch [that] is just a pitch" that happens to be labeled a knuckeball and a "pitch [that] is just a pitch" that happens to be labeled a fastball? 

Would you have been less of an *** about it?

 

First, I'll disagree that I've been "an *** about it".  I pointed out a flaw in the premise behind his question, which made his question irrelevant.  If there are "*****" in this thread, they've got a different ID from mine.

Second, if the question was rephrased as you have written it above, I would have responded in the same way.  Pitch names are cosmetic, the question is irrelevant.
3/31/2011 3:02 PM
His premise is fine.  He doesn't care that they aren't real pitches.  He wants to know about the labels, that's it.
3/31/2011 3:10 PM
The labels are irrelevant.  Does that clear things up?
3/31/2011 3:11 PM

They're not irrelevant for purposes of his curiosity. 

3/31/2011 3:26 PM
The enlightenment that I've provided him with my response should satisfy his curiosity much more than an irrelevant answer to his irrelevant question would.
3/31/2011 3:31 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 3/31/2011 2:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by isack24 on 3/31/2011 2:50:00 PM (view original):

My Cuban player is actually not from Cuba.  Why?  Because he's fake.  He's not even a "he."  None of this is real.  But the game labels it as a knuckeball, so whether that affects anything other than the label isn't the issue. 

What if he had asked this question: I want to know if anyone has seen a pitcher with a "pitch [that] is just a pitch" that happens to be labeled a knuckeball and a "pitch [that] is just a pitch" that happens to be labeled a fastball? 

Would you have been less of an *** about it?

 

First, I'll disagree that I've been "an *** about it".  I pointed out a flaw in the premise behind his question, which made his question irrelevant.  If there are "*****" in this thread, they've got a different ID from mine.

Second, if the question was rephrased as you have written it above, I would have responded in the same way.  Pitch names are cosmetic, the question is irrelevant.
This makes sense, different pitches stress a defense differently.  Still not convinced.

We might say that a ground ball pitcher who features the sinker might need a better infield defense behind him.  This makes the pitch type seem relevant.  But having an effective infield defense is always important.  Is the pitch type relevant because it results in more chances for the infield defense to prove themselves ineffective?  I don't know what my opinion is on this.

So, when we say that the knuckballer requires a more agile catcher, does this make the pitch type relevant, or catcher defense? 

I realize that this has moved beyond the initial discussion -- for instance, a pitcher's ground ball tendency is measurable in HBD -- but, you know, whatever.
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