4/3/2011 5:02 PM (edited)
Posted by isack24 on 3/31/2011 2:31:00 PM (view original):

The name of pitch is irrelevant to gameplay and effectiveness, not to what the pitch actually is.  The pitch is actually a knuckleball, even if it's not worth anything.

He wants to know if anyone has seen only two pitches, knuckleball and a fastball.  I'm not sure what the big ******* deal is.

The 17th post in this thread.  And isack24's 4th response.

"The pitch is actually a knuckleball".

Somebody seems confused.
4/3/2011 5:44 PM
Yeah, it's labeled a knuckleball.  I understand that he doesn't actually throw a knuckleball, because he doesn't actually throw a real pitch, because it's not real.  I understand that the label is irrelevant. 

But the pitch is labeled as a knuckleball, even if it isn't worth anything.  You can keep saying it's not a knuckleball, but the pitch is labeled a knuckleball.  I don't know what more to tell you about that.

Yeah, we all get that it's just a pitch, but the "pitch" is labeled as a knuckleball, and for the fun of the game, I call it a knuckleball.
4/3/2011 5:45 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/2/2011 9:03:00 AM (view original):
OK, I wasn't going to mention it but, since you said this "Teccywerger running around in all his infinite wisdom, the venerable veteran, with three teams all with losing records and zero championships in his many years of really cracking down and learning the game", you opened yourself up to it.

You have finished .500, exactly .500, one time and have a .442 winning percentage.   If you know all you need to know, why aren't you kicking *** and taking names?
Then again sometimes a guy with .412 winning percentage really is that bad.
4/3/2011 6:05 PM
Posted by tropicana on 4/3/2011 3:03:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/3/2011 12:11:00 PM (view original):
Yep.  The post I quoted was AFTER that one.   And that post seems to insist a "true knuckleballer" can exist in HBD.
That's the problem. In one second he says its cosmetic and in the next he seems to believe that it isn't. He has no idea what he's doing.
No, the problem is that one post he explicitly says it's cosmetic, and then the next someone tries to read the tea leaves and interpret his post as believing it's not cosmetic.

Apparently in any discussion where pitch types comes up, everyone referencing them must put a 'I KNOW THESE ARE MEANINGLESS AND COSMETIC AND IRRELEVANT' disclaimer on every single post they make. Otherwise it suddenly becomes very confusing to some people whether they think pitch types are cosmetic or not.
4/3/2011 6:21 PM
That would probably help.
4/3/2011 6:24 PM
Posted by isack24 on 4/3/2011 5:45:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, it's labeled a knuckleball.  I understand that he doesn't actually throw a knuckleball, because he doesn't actually throw a real pitch, because it's not real.  I understand that the label is irrelevant. 

But the pitch is labeled as a knuckleball, even if it isn't worth anything.  You can keep saying it's not a knuckleball, but the pitch is labeled a knuckleball.  I don't know what more to tell you about that.

Yeah, we all get that it's just a pitch, but the "pitch" is labeled as a knuckleball, and for the fun of the game, I call it a knuckleball.
It would be more appropriate to just call the pitch "P1", or "P2", etc..  Because, within the context of the game, that's what it actually is.
4/3/2011 6:56 PM
Look, it's just silly to call a pitcher a "knuckleballer".     Has anyone ever said "Looking to trade Jimmy Slopstuff.   He's throws a bunch of junk, doesn't even have a fastball but he's reasonably effective"?

So, when someone starts a thread looking for an example of a "true knuckleballer", you have to wonder if he gets "it".   Then when he bounces back and forth between his thoughts on cosmetic and actual game play, you have to wonder if he gets "it".
4/3/2011 7:42 PM
I think if we work at it some more, we can get this tragicomedy to reach 8 pages long!
4/3/2011 7:48 PM
Actually MikeT in one of my worlds blogs our resident projections writer likes to put in some artisitic flair.  He will refer to a pitcher having a wicked fastball/curveball or whatever.  Thinking that the players on your team are something more then what we all know they are I think adds some extra element of fun into it...  And some people like to nitpick...  Point is why cant we describe our pitchers as hard throwers with a great curve?  Why should we describe them as having a great 1st pitch and not so good 2nd pitch?  Where is the art in that?
4/3/2011 7:56 PM
You can do whatever you want.   But, like another poster mentioned, maybe we should talk about hometowns and batting stances too.   Or, maybe, we should cling to one shred of dignity to convince ourselves we're not nerds comparing pocket protectors.
4/3/2011 8:26 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 4/3/2011 6:24:00 PM (view original):
Posted by isack24 on 4/3/2011 5:45:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, it's labeled a knuckleball.  I understand that he doesn't actually throw a knuckleball, because he doesn't actually throw a real pitch, because it's not real.  I understand that the label is irrelevant. 

But the pitch is labeled as a knuckleball, even if it isn't worth anything.  You can keep saying it's not a knuckleball, but the pitch is labeled a knuckleball.  I don't know what more to tell you about that.

Yeah, we all get that it's just a pitch, but the "pitch" is labeled as a knuckleball, and for the fun of the game, I call it a knuckleball.
It would be more appropriate to just call the pitch "P1", or "P2", etc..  Because, within the context of the game, that's what it actually is.
Yeah, when you're talking about effectiveness or gameplay, sure.  But when the context of the discussion revolves aroung the label, then you have to talk about the label.

Let me ask you this: why do you think the programmers even bothered to create pitches if they didn't think it would add anything to the experience?

I can only assume that it was so we could refer to the pitches by their label.
4/3/2011 8:49 PM
But do you?

"He's got an 84 fastball, 67 curveball and 62 slider."    Have you ever said that?
4/3/2011 9:02 PM
Not on the forums, but occasionally when doing blog stuff, I'll say something like "he projects with an elite fastball."

Nerdy?  Absolutely.  But I think playing HBD makes us nerds by definition.  I didn't even tell my girlfriend about WIS for a year, but when I did, she said, "am I supposed to be surprised?"  Might as well embrace it.
4/3/2011 10:11 PM
So, is he a knuckleballer?
4/3/2011 10:17 PM
Posted by isack24 on 4/3/2011 9:02:00 PM (view original):
Not on the forums, but occasionally when doing blog stuff, I'll say something like "he projects with an elite fastball."

Nerdy?  Absolutely.  But I think playing HBD makes us nerds by definition.  I didn't even tell my girlfriend about WIS for a year, but when I did, she said, "am I supposed to be surprised?"  Might as well embrace it.
But if he has a P1 of 99, which is listed as a fastball, but his velocity is 15, what do you say then? He has a damn good fastball but can only throw as hard as a little leaguer? 
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