All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > SimLeague Baseball > Defense overperformance
5/26/2011 12:23 PM
I was looking at stats for a league of mine that's finishing up now, and noticed that my 1905 Mike Donlin is a Gold Glover at RF, despite his D/B- ratings.  

He has 20 "+" plays and no "-" plays, something I could never have imagined when I drafted him (his performance history shows an average of 0 "+" plays and 5 "-" plays in 3 previous uses).  

His fielding % was also better than expected -- .966 (only 9 errors) vs. his .934 real life %.

Am I missing something, or did I simply get lucky with Donlin?
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5/26/2011 1:12 PM
Didn't I read somewhere that part of the factor for + plays is the average range at that position in the league? So Donlin as a B- range guy could be way above average for a 2B ?
5/26/2011 1:33 PM
He's a RF, not a 2B.  But yeah, maybe it is somehow tied to the league average range at each position.  The top RF 'ers for "+" plays in this league are:

1985 Willie McGee (A range) 22
1905 Mike Donlin (B-) 21 (got one more in the PM game!)
1954 Mickey Mantle (B+) 13
1996 Albert Belle (C+) 12
1926 Freddy Leach (B) 11

My pitching staff was mostly modern guys, with fewer than 400 out of 1400 IP being deadball era, so I guess that helped Donlin too.  Contrast that with 1985 McGee, in 1st place above, who's on an all-deadball pitching team.


5/26/2011 1:49 PM
Something is quirky....I have an A/A CF with only 11 + plays through 131 games.
5/26/2011 1:53 PM
I think Crazy and I are right... I usually see a lot of + plays in RF if I have a guy with decent range there. Your A/A CF is probably average (or worse) compared to your league's CFers.
5/26/2011 2:08 PM (edited)
Results from a recent league...

Player SN Pos G GS Inn PO A E DP + - Fld% RF
McPhee, Bid 1887 2B 162 162 1,447.3 357 597 23 87 41 1 .976 5.93
Anson, Cap 1885 1B 162 162 1,392.3 1698 120 10 109 40 0 .995 11.75
Glasscock, Jack 1887 SS 162 162 1,447.3 354 542 34 99 34 0 .963 5.57
Stovey, Harry 1886 CF 162 162 1,392.3 385 3 9 0 28 0 .977 2.51
Lyons, Denny 1889 3B 162 162 1,396.3 130 290 33 15 26 0 .927 2.71
Carroll, Fred 1886 RF 162 162 1,447.3 324 8 6 1 26 0 .982 2.06
Hanlon, Ned 1890 LF 162 162 1,447.3 278 7 8 0 16 0 .973 1.77

Including pitchers and other players, the team had 235 "+" plays and 2 "-" plays.  Sadly, they finished win only 83 wins.
5/26/2011 2:07 PM
I just submitted this ticket:

"Could you explain the what goes into deciding if a + play occurs defensively?

I am sure it is complicated but I would love to see the logic."

Maybe we'll get an answer


5/26/2011 2:55 PM
Posted by Trentonjoe on 5/26/2011 1:49:00 PM (view original):
Something is quirky....I have an A/A CF with only 11 + plays through 131 games.
In CF an "average" range grade (zero net +plays) is about B+.  In RF or LF an "average" range grade is about C-.  An A in CF is only 2 grades above average while a B- RF is 3 grades above average.  So it wouldn't be terribly odd that a B- COF makes more + plays than an A CF. 
5/26/2011 3:43 PM
Assuming plus/minus plays are influenced by league average ranges, does it help us to know this?  Let's say I have three OF's with A+, D and D range.  Should I play the A+ guy where his range is likely to be way above average relative to the rest of the league (LF or RF)?  Okay, so he winds up with more plus plays -- but what about the D ranger guy I'm now playing in CF?  He's going to rack up a lot of minus plays, more than he would have in the corners, right?
5/26/2011 3:46 PM
Posted by crazystengel on 5/26/2011 3:43:00 PM (view original):
Assuming plus/minus plays are influenced by league average ranges, does it help us to know this?  Let's say I have three OF's with A+, D and D range.  Should I play the A+ guy where his range is likely to be way above average relative to the rest of the league (LF or RF)?  Okay, so he winds up with more plus plays -- but what about the D ranger guy I'm now playing in CF?  He's going to rack up a lot of minus plays, more than he would have in the corners, right?
Right. I don't really know how strong the impact is. If you got everyone to agree to play D range guys in CF, would they all play it capably? Or is there a limit? I have to think it's a mix between pure range and relative range. Mike Cameron would still have to get 20+ plays even surrounded by other A+ guys (I would think)
5/26/2011 5:06 PM
crazy, I've had similar stats w/ 3b Bobby Bonilla in the Centenary Progressive.

1988  C-/A+  162gs 20E 30+ plays 0- plays. He was a GG for most of the year but did not win it at the end. He had @5-6 E's in our last 20g's. 690RL pa's.
1989  D+/A+  84gs  18E  15+ plays 0- plays. Current GG. Played him in LF D-/B- for 2g 2E 2+ plays. 698RL pa's.

I attributed his A+ range to the high number of +plays, but if in fact, there is some sort of "curve" for + plays, that does add a new wrinkle to players w/ secondary defensive positions...
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5/27/2011 12:59 AM
B- range is really good compared to other doods from 1905.
5/28/2011 2:08 AM
Posted by zubinsum on 5/26/2011 9:09:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jfranco77 on 5/26/2011 3:46:00 PM (view original):
Posted by crazystengel on 5/26/2011 3:43:00 PM (view original):
Assuming plus/minus plays are influenced by league average ranges, does it help us to know this?  Let's say I have three OF's with A+, D and D range.  Should I play the A+ guy where his range is likely to be way above average relative to the rest of the league (LF or RF)?  Okay, so he winds up with more plus plays -- but what about the D ranger guy I'm now playing in CF?  He's going to rack up a lot of minus plays, more than he would have in the corners, right?
Right. I don't really know how strong the impact is. If you got everyone to agree to play D range guys in CF, would they all play it capably? Or is there a limit? I have to think it's a mix between pure range and relative range. Mike Cameron would still have to get 20+ plays even surrounded by other A+ guys (I would think)
Plus/ minus plays are not influenced by league average ranges.  What I was trying to communicate is that in the sim, neutral range (the point where plus and minus plays balance on average) is higher in CF (~B+) than it is in RF or LF (~C-).  This is about the same as in real-life where a league average CF (say Colby Rasmus) would easily play the best COF in the majors.  While a very good LF (say Matt Holliday) would play one of the worst CFs in the majors.
So I guess we can conclude that the 3 other times 1905 Donlin was used -- where he averaged 0 "+" plays and 5 "-" plays (in contrast to the 22 "+" and 0 "-" plays he had for me) -- that he was used in CF?
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