And to follow up on your first thought, what does this new reality mean practically for recruiting? How do things need to be done differently...

To clarify the initial complaint: the reason the recruit was not interested in Duke is because Duke offered and then withdrew a scholarship offer.  This was clearly explained in the support ticket response, but doesn't appear to have made its way to this thread.

Posted by seble on 7/13/2011 1:50:00 PM (view original):
To clarify the initial complaint: the reason the recruit was not interested in Duke is because Duke offered and then withdrew a scholarship offer.  This was clearly explained in the support ticket response, but doesn't appear to have made its way to this thread.

I just can't see that as being correct. I don't see how emy would be in the stage where he's calling coaches but at the same time had 2 seperate cycles to offer a scholarship and then withdraw the offer. If the effort is indeed showing that is what happened I'm sure it's a bug in the engine. Just like the poster who spoke about getting 4 eval notes on a guy he never recruited.

Posted by kmasonbx1 on 7/13/2011 2:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by seble on 7/13/2011 1:50:00 PM (view original):
To clarify the initial complaint: the reason the recruit was not interested in Duke is because Duke offered and then withdrew a scholarship offer.  This was clearly explained in the support ticket response, but doesn't appear to have made its way to this thread.

I just can't see that as being correct. I don't see how emy would be in the stage where he's calling coaches but at the same time had 2 seperate cycles to offer a scholarship and then withdraw the offer. If the effort is indeed showing that is what happened I'm sure it's a bug in the engine. Just like the poster who spoke about getting 4 eval notes on a guy he never recruited.

maybe emy is jslotman? because that is the only coach I know that offers a scholarship right off the bat. 

Posted by seble on 7/13/2011 1:50:00 PM (view original):
To clarify the initial complaint: the reason the recruit was not interested in Duke is because Duke offered and then withdrew a scholarship offer.  This was clearly explained in the support ticket response, but doesn't appear to have made its way to this thread.

Wow, that is interesting, I will never pull away a scholly offer from now on that is for sure.  I never did, but that is solid info to know that a recruit gets that mad at you for taking a scholly offer away. 

Posted by kmasonbx1 on 7/13/2011 2:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by seble on 7/13/2011 1:50:00 PM (view original):
To clarify the initial complaint: the reason the recruit was not interested in Duke is because Duke offered and then withdrew a scholarship offer.  This was clearly explained in the support ticket response, but doesn't appear to have made its way to this thread.

I just can't see that as being correct. I don't see how emy would be in the stage where he's calling coaches but at the same time had 2 seperate cycles to offer a scholarship and then withdraw the offer. If the effort is indeed showing that is what happened I'm sure it's a bug in the engine. Just like the poster who spoke about getting 4 eval notes on a guy he never recruited.

scholarships don't work on the normal withdraw mechanic do they?

iirc you can offer/withdraw in the same cycle but it will still eat your $100

so is this saying that if you withdraw a scholarship offer on a player and then re-offer it on the same cycle (ie no net change but it costs $100) that the recruit will no longer consider you?

Also i guess this also means that if you withdraw a scholly and trie to re-offer it at a later cycle, the recruit will reject you as well?

The withdrawal is processed immediately and generates a large amount of negative feelings from the player.  You can recover and generate interest again, but it will require more effort.

In this case, both the offer and withdrawal happened in the same cycle, preceding other contact.

Posted by tianyi7886 on 7/13/2011 2:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kmasonbx1 on 7/13/2011 2:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by seble on 7/13/2011 1:50:00 PM (view original):
To clarify the initial complaint: the reason the recruit was not interested in Duke is because Duke offered and then withdrew a scholarship offer.  This was clearly explained in the support ticket response, but doesn't appear to have made its way to this thread.

I just can't see that as being correct. I don't see how emy would be in the stage where he's calling coaches but at the same time had 2 seperate cycles to offer a scholarship and then withdraw the offer. If the effort is indeed showing that is what happened I'm sure it's a bug in the engine. Just like the poster who spoke about getting 4 eval notes on a guy he never recruited.

maybe emy is jslotman? because that is the only coach I know that offers a scholarship right off the bat. 

Ah, I always offer the scholarship right from the first cycle as I would think the majority of coaches do.

Thanks for the clarification, seble. This really helps us.

there is more than that going on. a couple other issues -

personally, i had a player at a+ prestige UK, i dumped almost double the effort i usually dumped in to get "very strong" on FSS, on a player. he showed "interested, but wide open" on FSS afterwards. i also heard another coach talking about this. but i am 100% sure in my case - there is no way in hell the player should not have been very strongly considering me. i would bet my life on it.

i am hearing more and more reports - 3 in the last two days - of coaches who have players show up in their divisional pool (d2 or d3) who cannot talk to them. this never happened until the new engine. emy's issue sounds similar.

finally, the answer here does not pass the litmus test. raise your hand if you have put a couple evals and scholarship into a player, only to find out from the evals hes a no go - and consequently, pulled the scholarship and put on a redshirt, but could not for the life of you stop the player from considering you? its happened to me more than 20 times. i am talking 2 maybe 3 evals. if a scholarship pull was the gigantic negative seble makes it out to be, so much that A+ duke could not even talk to a 2 star player, i just can't see how pulling a scholarship AND a redshirt would be incapable of knocking off a player you have 2-3 evals on. does not pass the litmus test. it just sounds WAY too similar to the bug we are all 100% in agreement on (except the site staff) about a d2 school not being able to talk to a player in the d2 search.

edit: and the one kmason mentioned, where a different coach insists they received 4 evals on a player they never contacted.

edit: to quote a coach in one of my conferences - "Hey <name of another coach>- the undecided thing is a bit screwy. My UCSD team got a scholarship leading email and was still not even considering me. Then he signed on the next cycle."  - that was in response to another coach complaing about a recruit who likes everything, shows up in his pool, takes his visits, but won't consider him. not sure what the level of effort is - these are both multiple championship coaches so i don't think its a simple rookie misunderstanding.

Gil, I'll go you one better: In tark this season I noticed a juco2 considering me at UMass. I had recruited him, very briefly, TWO seasons prior, then pulled the scholarship and gave him the redshirt. After that, and with no effort last season or this one, he was still considering us. 

I think pulling scholarship has diff effects on diff players. I made a thread a few months back about whether pulling a scholarship can erase all my recruiting efforts (mainly, I want to erase the promised start since I want to RS him), I was told no by everyone and informed of using the inform redshirt option and then withdrawing it.

I made that thread specifically because I remember  a player from about 8 months ago where withdrawing the scholarship had the player stop considering me (in which I put in multiple HV). And then there are cases now in which I pull the scholarship from a player who's considering me only due to a promised start. After pulling the scholarship, the player is still considering me.

My point is, the effect of pulling a scholarship varies player to player. 

Posted by seble on 7/13/2011 1:50:00 PM (view original):
To clarify the initial complaint: the reason the recruit was not interested in Duke is because Duke offered and then withdrew a scholarship offer.  This was clearly explained in the support ticket response, but doesn't appear to have made its way to this thread.

What Seble posted is correct.  I did offer the schollie and then withdrew it.  What's strange to me is that on the player's recruiting history, it shows him rejecting the schollie.  My question is, how can he reject the schollie if it's not there?  I've pulled schollies from dozens of players in my time playing HD and I don't recall their histories ever saying that they rejected the schollies.  Now I may be wrong on this, just because I didn't look close enough or didn't pay enough attention because I dumped them, but the verbiage on that just seems strange.

What's also strange to me is that I have done this, literally, dozen of times with a couple of different A+ prestige teams and have never run into this scenario of getting flat-out rejected if I tried to re-recruit the player.  I also find it very strange that my ticket was processed right before the 2 p.m. cycle on day two and, voila, he was suddenly recruitable to me using just the $130 dollar method (one phone call, start, minutes, and schollie).  I would think that someone who was THAT "upset" with my school would require a WHOLE lot more effort to re-recruit him and get him considering me than just that.

Bottom line, I moved on and found a three star PG to recruit instead of the two star who was so "upset".  Still, regardless of CS' answer, after reading about a number of other issues going on during this recruiting session, looks to me like something is amiss.

Sounds like a bull response.

I've never withdrawn a scholarship to anyone. I'm at Tarkanian D2 Catawba with A+ prestige.

The last 2 cycles (today) I have had home visits rejected by two different D2 recruits that are not considering any other schools.

Should never happen...and never seen it happen before.

Something is not right.

ps- I have a ticket in, but no response yet.