Posted by hughesjr on 11/22/2011 6:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by jtwhiz on 11/22/2011 5:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by hughesjr on 11/22/2011 5:53:00 PM (view original):
How is that different than 30 or 40 CVs.  Recruits are only allowed 5 total visits in real life, and only one visit to an individual school.

Our recruiting "items" are really just a way to spend effort.  There is NO WAY that a recruit could possibly do 40 CVs to one school.

I think it is silly to pick one thing and single that out as a problem while the other things we do are also very unrealistic.

Skipping is a form of running but I wouldn't try to skip my way through a marathon. Sending 71 AC scouts is ridiculous in a way that 30 CVs is not. You can't possibly send anything more potent than a CV, so you just have to spend on them. Sending 71 AC scouts when you have a half-dozen better recruiting actions is just half-assing it 71 times and hoping you get better luck next time.

OK ... and in HD you have to use 20-30 Scouting Visits to be able to pull down recruits from a higher level.  Several people (including ermackey) play more than one game here, and so they try things that work in other games to see if they work in this game.  Sometimes thinking outside the box has you do certain things that others don't do.  In HD, sending 30 (or sometimes more) scouting visits is what you need to do.

Or we can just attack people and call them stupid if they try sometime we don't agree with.

Oh Johnny I missed you. Remember all those times you were JConte's knight in shining armor? Good times.

Posted by jtwhiz on 11/23/2011 6:53:00 AM (view original):

Posted by hughesjr on 11/22/2011 6:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by jtwhiz on 11/22/2011 5:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by hughesjr on 11/22/2011 5:53:00 PM (view original):
How is that different than 30 or 40 CVs.  Recruits are only allowed 5 total visits in real life, and only one visit to an individual school.

Our recruiting "items" are really just a way to spend effort.  There is NO WAY that a recruit could possibly do 40 CVs to one school.

I think it is silly to pick one thing and single that out as a problem while the other things we do are also very unrealistic.

Skipping is a form of running but I wouldn't try to skip my way through a marathon. Sending 71 AC scouts is ridiculous in a way that 30 CVs is not. You can't possibly send anything more potent than a CV, so you just have to spend on them. Sending 71 AC scouts when you have a half-dozen better recruiting actions is just half-assing it 71 times and hoping you get better luck next time.

OK ... and in HD you have to use 20-30 Scouting Visits to be able to pull down recruits from a higher level.  Several people (including ermackey) play more than one game here, and so they try things that work in other games to see if they work in this game.  Sometimes thinking outside the box has you do certain things that others don't do.  In HD, sending 30 (or sometimes more) scouting visits is what you need to do.

Or we can just attack people and call them stupid if they try sometime we don't agree with.

Oh Johnny I missed you. Remember all those times you were JConte's knight in shining armor? Good times.

Yes ... I actually think that one should be NICE to people on the internet that same as you would be in person ... I know, a strange concept.

You guys all probably go to church on Sunday and are nice and sweet and shacking everyone's hand, then hit the message boards and act like BTK !

Posted by hughesjr on 11/23/2011 6:57:00 AM (view original):

Posted by jtwhiz on 11/23/2011 6:53:00 AM (view original):

Posted by hughesjr on 11/22/2011 6:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by jtwhiz on 11/22/2011 5:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by hughesjr on 11/22/2011 5:53:00 PM (view original):
How is that different than 30 or 40 CVs.  Recruits are only allowed 5 total visits in real life, and only one visit to an individual school.

Our recruiting "items" are really just a way to spend effort.  There is NO WAY that a recruit could possibly do 40 CVs to one school.

I think it is silly to pick one thing and single that out as a problem while the other things we do are also very unrealistic.

Skipping is a form of running but I wouldn't try to skip my way through a marathon. Sending 71 AC scouts is ridiculous in a way that 30 CVs is not. You can't possibly send anything more potent than a CV, so you just have to spend on them. Sending 71 AC scouts when you have a half-dozen better recruiting actions is just half-assing it 71 times and hoping you get better luck next time.

OK ... and in HD you have to use 20-30 Scouting Visits to be able to pull down recruits from a higher level.  Several people (including ermackey) play more than one game here, and so they try things that work in other games to see if they work in this game.  Sometimes thinking outside the box has you do certain things that others don't do.  In HD, sending 30 (or sometimes more) scouting visits is what you need to do.

Or we can just attack people and call them stupid if they try sometime we don't agree with.

Oh Johnny I missed you. Remember all those times you were JConte's knight in shining armor? Good times.

Yes ... I actually think that one should be NICE to people on the internet that same as you would be in person ... I know, a strange concept.

You guys all probably go to church on Sunday and are nice and sweet and shacking everyone's hand, then hit the message boards and act like BTK !

I'm offended that you would say that! I don't "shack" anyone's hand at church

Posted by ermackey on 11/22/2011 8:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mduncanhogs on 11/22/2011 8:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ermackey on 11/22/2011 1:24:00 PM (view original):
You are all missing the point. Sims are harder to beat than they have been - regardless of the method employed.

No, they aren't.

Yes, they are. You just have not noticed yet.

Or you did not notice it before as others have?

I can stand on norberts side as kicking simms off recruits is the majority of my battles. And there's a corrulation between the higher ranked players and the effort needed. It has always been this way. If you only pursue average recruits and undecided's you most likely haven't run into it. Next recruiting cycle for you, try going after the highest ranked recruit in your comfort range with only 1 simm on him. You'll find out.

P.S. If you have no vision, you have no problem. Meaning, if the highest ranked recruit in your area is #40, you wont have as much of a problem.

Posted by hughesjr on 11/23/2011 6:57:00 AM (view original):

Posted by jtwhiz on 11/23/2011 6:53:00 AM (view original):

Posted by hughesjr on 11/22/2011 6:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by jtwhiz on 11/22/2011 5:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by hughesjr on 11/22/2011 5:53:00 PM (view original):
How is that different than 30 or 40 CVs.  Recruits are only allowed 5 total visits in real life, and only one visit to an individual school.

Our recruiting "items" are really just a way to spend effort.  There is NO WAY that a recruit could possibly do 40 CVs to one school.

I think it is silly to pick one thing and single that out as a problem while the other things we do are also very unrealistic.

Skipping is a form of running but I wouldn't try to skip my way through a marathon. Sending 71 AC scouts is ridiculous in a way that 30 CVs is not. You can't possibly send anything more potent than a CV, so you just have to spend on them. Sending 71 AC scouts when you have a half-dozen better recruiting actions is just half-assing it 71 times and hoping you get better luck next time.

OK ... and in HD you have to use 20-30 Scouting Visits to be able to pull down recruits from a higher level.  Several people (including ermackey) play more than one game here, and so they try things that work in other games to see if they work in this game.  Sometimes thinking outside the box has you do certain things that others don't do.  In HD, sending 30 (or sometimes more) scouting visits is what you need to do.

Or we can just attack people and call them stupid if they try sometime we don't agree with.

Oh Johnny I missed you. Remember all those times you were JConte's knight in shining armor? Good times.

Yes ... I actually think that one should be NICE to people on the internet that same as you would be in person ... I know, a strange concept.

You guys all probably go to church on Sunday and are nice and sweet and shacking everyone's hand, then hit the message boards and act like BTK !

You have a good point in saying people should be nice to others online. In that case, stick to that point.

Where you start to lose credibility is when you start arguing that sending that many scout trips is a strategy that considers merit. You are way too experienced to defend that. It makes me think you are arguing just for the sake of it. Thinking outside the box is commendable, but one needs to be ready to admit when something does not work or is a poor method instead of trying to save face (I am not talking about you). Act humble, and people are more likely to cut you slacks. Act out of pride, and one invites more grief.

i once cought a fish this biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig!
and I sent 4,000,000,000 letters to get this guy green, Yea, thats the ticket yea, 4 miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiillllllllllllllllllion
just messing! had to this thread is comedy!

Recruiting is definitely broke. The guy who actually has access to the code and has reviewed it has stated not once, but twice for the class that it is indeed not broke. Norbert has given me no reason to believe he is a credible source and must be wrong.

Also...CV's sometimes get charged to you. If you have been playing for 6 years you should know they sometimes get charged to you.

And 21 AC Scouts at $270 is $3k...not $5760 dollars.

For the record...I am almost done recruiting in Hayes. I had 12 to fill and 9 of the guys I have signed were Sims who I didn't battle a human for. The other 2 I signed were smallish battles and I have 1 left who is a good battle...so not counting them.

I spent between $6326 and $14k on those 9 guys within my 360. (I got a QB outside my 360 for around 16k) I found recruiting to be unchanged at the D1a level.

I also sent no more than a single AC scout to any player...

However...I may have just got lucky with my experience and it's really hard to figure out who has the most credibility here. Maybe if norbert could tell us for a 3rd time that nothing was changed I could possibly then believe him...

Posted by DKC on 11/23/2011 12:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by hughesjr on 11/23/2011 6:57:00 AM (view original):

Posted by jtwhiz on 11/23/2011 6:53:00 AM (view original):

Posted by hughesjr on 11/22/2011 6:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by jtwhiz on 11/22/2011 5:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by hughesjr on 11/22/2011 5:53:00 PM (view original):
How is that different than 30 or 40 CVs.  Recruits are only allowed 5 total visits in real life, and only one visit to an individual school.

Our recruiting "items" are really just a way to spend effort.  There is NO WAY that a recruit could possibly do 40 CVs to one school.

I think it is silly to pick one thing and single that out as a problem while the other things we do are also very unrealistic.

Skipping is a form of running but I wouldn't try to skip my way through a marathon. Sending 71 AC scouts is ridiculous in a way that 30 CVs is not. You can't possibly send anything more potent than a CV, so you just have to spend on them. Sending 71 AC scouts when you have a half-dozen better recruiting actions is just half-assing it 71 times and hoping you get better luck next time.

OK ... and in HD you have to use 20-30 Scouting Visits to be able to pull down recruits from a higher level.  Several people (including ermackey) play more than one game here, and so they try things that work in other games to see if they work in this game.  Sometimes thinking outside the box has you do certain things that others don't do.  In HD, sending 30 (or sometimes more) scouting visits is what you need to do.

Or we can just attack people and call them stupid if they try sometime we don't agree with.

Oh Johnny I missed you. Remember all those times you were JConte's knight in shining armor? Good times.

Yes ... I actually think that one should be NICE to people on the internet that same as you would be in person ... I know, a strange concept.

You guys all probably go to church on Sunday and are nice and sweet and shacking everyone's hand, then hit the message boards and act like BTK !

You have a good point in saying people should be nice to others online. In that case, stick to that point.

Where you start to lose credibility is when you start arguing that sending that many scout trips is a strategy that considers merit. You are way too experienced to defend that. It makes me think you are arguing just for the sake of it. Thinking outside the box is commendable, but one needs to be ready to admit when something does not work or is a poor method instead of trying to save face (I am not talking about you). Act humble, and people are more likely to cut you slacks. Act out of pride, and one invites more grief.

If that was pointed at me, I did act humbly and admit my mistake about 3 pages back regarding my method. The problem is that method has nothing to do with the point of the thread. Me and other coaches have noticed it was harder. Norbert even mentioned it was possible even though he did not change anything. Regardless of the method, it has gotten harder to recruit against sims since the update. If it took 3 sets of visits before the sim and it takes 8 sets of visits now, it is harder.  Other owners have said they have seen the same thing with CV's. I would recommend that you "act humbly" and pay attention to that observation.

Posted by norbert on 11/21/2011 5:28:00 PM (view original):
There has been nothing changed for DIA and DIAA recruiting.  However, we have found that some recruits get hit up a lot harder from a Sim AI school than others, so these will be more difficult to recruit against.  If you run up against one of these recruits, it will be tougher than what you might expect.  There's really no way to tell how much a Sim AI has recruited a player, but not all Sim AI recruiting is the same.

For some reason I keep getting credited for saying something has changed or "changed".  It hasn't.  The tougher Sim AI recruits have always been in there and we did not change that with the update.  So to be clear - nothing has changed with respect to DIA and DIAA recruiting.  If you are having a tougher time than normal than you are either hitting one of these recruits with more Sim AI recruiting on them than normal or you aren't comparing apples to apples.

norbert said...

"The recruiting changes are in effect.  The only changes made were to DII and DIII recruiting as those are where we found the most balance issues between Sim AI recruiting amounts and human recruiting amounts.  DIA and DIAA values were not changed.  We will continue to monitor recruiting and feedback and see where it stands the next time we make an update."

He also said...

"There has been nothing changed for DIA and DIAA recruiting.  However, we have found that some recruits get hit up a lot harder from a Sim AI school than others, so these will be more difficult to recruit against.  If you run up against one of these recruits, it will be tougher than what you might expect.  There's really no way to tell how much a Sim AI has recruited a player, but not all Sim AI recruiting is the same."

NOWHERE does he say "it's possible even though he did not change anything"

I have read this thread where SEVERAL D1a coaches have mentioned that they have run into Sims in the past who were harder to knock off than others. This has been my experience in the past and in this cycle as well. Who are these "other" coaches who have "noticed it was harder"?

Posted by norbert on 11/23/2011 2:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by norbert on 11/21/2011 5:28:00 PM (view original):
There has been nothing changed for DIA and DIAA recruiting.  However, we have found that some recruits get hit up a lot harder from a Sim AI school than others, so these will be more difficult to recruit against.  If you run up against one of these recruits, it will be tougher than what you might expect.  There's really no way to tell how much a Sim AI has recruited a player, but not all Sim AI recruiting is the same.

For some reason I keep getting credited for saying something has changed or "changed".  It hasn't.  The tougher Sim AI recruits have always been in there and we did not change that with the update.  So to be clear - nothing has changed with respect to DIA and DIAA recruiting.  If you are having a tougher time than normal than you are either hitting one of these recruits with more Sim AI recruiting on them than normal or you aren't comparing apples to apples.

OK...now that you have said it a 3rd time I believe u!!! Sorry for ever doubting you norbert!!!

Posted by norbert on 11/23/2011 2:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by norbert on 11/21/2011 5:28:00 PM (view original):
There has been nothing changed for DIA and DIAA recruiting.  However, we have found that some recruits get hit up a lot harder from a Sim AI school than others, so these will be more difficult to recruit against.  If you run up against one of these recruits, it will be tougher than what you might expect.  There's really no way to tell how much a Sim AI has recruited a player, but not all Sim AI recruiting is the same.

For some reason I keep getting credited for saying something has changed or "changed".  It hasn't.  The tougher Sim AI recruits have always been in there and we did not change that with the update.  So to be clear - nothing has changed with respect to DIA and DIAA recruiting.  If you are having a tougher time than normal than you are either hitting one of these recruits with more Sim AI recruiting on them than normal or you aren't comparing apples to apples.

This is the part were are keying on:  "However, we have found that some recruits get hit up a lot harder from a Sim AI school than others, so these will be more difficult to recruit against.  If you run up against one of these recruits, it will be tougher than what you might expect." Do disrespect intended. From my {and some other owners) perspective, this is "change" because I have never experienced players this hard to turn yellow. From your perspective, your did not "change" the code. But the two are not exclusive. We are seeing something new even if you didn't change anything with recruiting. Maybe it is the butterfly effect in the code. Maybe I lucked through 600 seasons and just ran into 3 of them coincidentally after the update. But what you say was always the case was not observed to the same degree by me prior to the update compared to now.

Posted by damauler12 on 11/23/2011 1:26:00 PM (view original):
Recruiting is definitely broke. The guy who actually has access to the code and has reviewed it has stated not once, but twice for the class that it is indeed not broke. Norbert has given me no reason to believe he is a credible source and must be wrong.

Also...CV's sometimes get charged to you. If you have been playing for 6 years you should know they sometimes get charged to you.

And 21 AC Scouts at $270 is $3k...not $5760 dollars.

For the record...I am almost done recruiting in Hayes. I had 12 to fill and 9 of the guys I have signed were Sims who I didn't battle a human for. The other 2 I signed were smallish battles and I have 1 left who is a good battle...so not counting them.

I spent between $6326 and $14k on those 9 guys within my 360. (I got a QB outside my 360 for around 16k) I found recruiting to be unchanged at the D1a level.

I also sent no more than a single AC scout to any player...

However...I may have just got lucky with my experience and it's really hard to figure out who has the most credibility here. Maybe if norbert could tell us for a 3rd time that nothing was changed I could possibly then believe him...

Your math is off. (unless you were being sarcastic or you punched in a wrong number)

270 x 21= 5,670

Posted by ermackey on 11/23/2011 2:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by norbert on 11/23/2011 2:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by norbert on 11/21/2011 5:28:00 PM (view original):
There has been nothing changed for DIA and DIAA recruiting.  However, we have found that some recruits get hit up a lot harder from a Sim AI school than others, so these will be more difficult to recruit against.  If you run up against one of these recruits, it will be tougher than what you might expect.  There's really no way to tell how much a Sim AI has recruited a player, but not all Sim AI recruiting is the same.

For some reason I keep getting credited for saying something has changed or "changed".  It hasn't.  The tougher Sim AI recruits have always been in there and we did not change that with the update.  So to be clear - nothing has changed with respect to DIA and DIAA recruiting.  If you are having a tougher time than normal than you are either hitting one of these recruits with more Sim AI recruiting on them than normal or you aren't comparing apples to apples.

This is the part were are keying on:  "However, we have found that some recruits get hit up a lot harder from a Sim AI school than others, so these will be more difficult to recruit against.  If you run up against one of these recruits, it will be tougher than what you might expect." Do disrespect intended. From my {and some other owners) perspective, this is "change" because I have never experienced players this hard to turn yellow. From your perspective, your did not "change" the code. But the two are not exclusive. We are seeing something new even if you didn't change anything with recruiting. Maybe it is the butterfly effect in the code. Maybe I lucked through 600 seasons and just ran into 3 of them coincidentally after the update. But what you say was always the case was not observed to the same degree by me prior to the update compared to now.

Several coaches have posted that the harder sim recruits had occurred before the update.