All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Do managers know how to use the shift?
4/11/2012 9:46 PM
A) I've seen managers this year using a high number of shifts, even on non-traditional "shift" hitters

B) I've seen quite a few shifts to the pull side of a hitter, with the pitcher feeding the hitter a steady diet of pitches away

Seems like dugouts are being overrun by the stat geeks.
4/12/2012 9:26 PM
I saw one play with the Rays, Kings of the shift, the other day where the 2B, on the other side of the bag fields a ground ball to start a DP and tosses it the SS who is running alongside the second baseman. Funniest thing I ever saw.
4/12/2012 10:56 PM
Was it a left handed second baseman?
4/12/2012 11:21 PM
Well played!!
4/14/2012 5:28 AM
You can kind of see the SS running towards the bag as the 2B tosses the ball ahead of him..SS did start on the other side of the 2B at the start. Kind of hard to explain..

4/14/2012 9:25 PM
In the **** 56 up, 3 down
 
Military slang (usually used by the ground combatants) meaning we are taking: heavy fire, casualties,in risk of being wiped out or overrun. Frequently heard in radio communications requesting assistance.
fragment of radio transmission: We are INNN the ****, get some air cover in here. -or- Jesus Christ, we are REALLY IN THE ****...double deep... need artillery now,,,goddamnit, NOW
4/14/2012 9:26 PM

That's my psuedo yearly Vietnam movie reference drop in....

Shift....****....same thing.

4/15/2012 1:08 PM
Taking the question serious for a moment, "The Shift" is not a finite thing that is defined in one manner.  The term "shift" is used for any defensive alignment where the defense plays in "non-traditional" positions.  Do managers know how to use it? Yes. Is it different every time? Yes.  

With modern technology we have the ability to record and analyze and log every at bat.  "The shift" for a certain player on a certain pitch is based on this analysis.  Michael Kay pointed out in the Yankee game the other day that the shift was different on Teixeira for different AB's and how silly it was.  Pinenally jumped in and noted that the shift was probably based on the fact that they had changed pitchers and how they planned to pitch to Teixeira.  Meaning, they figured what Tex would with a low and away curveball as opposed to a high fastball.  "The shift" is next level baseball strategy is next level baseball. You can expect to see more of this not less.  The days of the curmudgeon old manager who managers on instinct are dying. Young manager who take the time to  look at data don't need to use instinct because they have something better, facts.
4/17/2012 2:58 PM
What Bilfert said.
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4/18/2012 9:39 AM
Of course players will try to adapt, but it is very difficult to change tendencies and extremely difficult to do it quickly.  Like the Moneyball Philosophy, a guy that gets has a good aeye and walk, will aways have a good eye and walk regardless of his batting average.  Baseball is a game of instinct and instant reaction.  When Verlander throws you 101MPH gas, you simply put the bat on the ball the way you know how.
4/18/2012 9:45 AM
They're the best at what they do.   Nonetheless, I wasn't talking about Jason Giambi or David Ortiz re-learning their swing.   I'm talking about the guy in Low A.   IF MLB starts utilizing shifts on a more frequent basis, that hot prospect in El Paso who can only hit to RF will be taught to hit the ball to LF compentently. 
4/18/2012 4:19 PM
Agreed. Teaching guys to use the whole field like Cano, Kemp and Cabrera. Easier said than done I am sure.
4/18/2012 6:25 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/18/2012 9:45:00 AM (view original):
They're the best at what they do.   Nonetheless, I wasn't talking about Jason Giambi or David Ortiz re-learning their swing.   I'm talking about the guy in Low A.   IF MLB starts utilizing shifts on a more frequent basis, that hot prospect in El Paso who can only hit to RF will be taught to hit the ball to LF compentently. 
I think that's easier said than done.  If teams could just teach hitters to hit a certain way they would.  But, for the most part, they can't.  
4/18/2012 6:41 PM
I go back to they're the best at what they do.    Can a coach say "OK, just hit a couple the other way" and it happens?  No, of course not.    But a 19 year old kid is like clay.   If his path to the big leagues is "learn to hit the other way", he'll learn to hit the other way.   It's not some crazy secret on how to do it(same "trigger" but keep your hands back), it's just the will and repetition required to do it.    Players just have to be motivated to do it.    They aren't because managers would rather give Ortiz opportunity to jack one out than lay a bunt down.  Right now, the opposing manager would love to see Ortiz bunt as they've taken him out of his "comfort zone". 

If the shift becomes increasingly utilized, it will be because it's effective.  If it's effective, don't you think all these "data savvy" young managers will seek to make it less effective when used against them?   How, exactly, do you think they'll do that?
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