Posted by MikeT23 on 5/7/2012 8:12:00 PM (view original):
That's 13th if it's a one team draft.    Why not take a few back-ups, an extra SP or three and then worry about your bullpen?

Posted by jrd_x on 5/7/2012 10:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 5/7/2012 8:12:00 PM (view original):
That's 13th if it's a one team draft.    Why not take a few back-ups, an extra SP or three and then worry about your bullpen?

It's not a one team draft. 120 is being generous with a ten team draft. More teams and he's coming off the board closer to 200.

Posted by Jtpsops on 5/5/2012 3:43:00 PM (view original):

Did Wagner do it over 15 years? Does he have as many saves as Rivera? Is his post-season resume as good as Rivera's? Did he ever pitch in an environment like NY?

Stop being a stat geek.

Posted by tecwrg on 5/8/2012 10:18:00 AM (view original):
I'm waiting to hear about the respective FIPs of Rivera, Wagner and Hoffman.  Because that will really tell us who the best closer is.

I think we've found the "logic" jrdx is using.

Since Wagner was a better strikeout pitcher, I'm sure his FIP is better.   Sawing the bat off in the batter's hand has no value. 

Posted by MikeT23 on 5/8/2012 10:50:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 5/8/2012 10:18:00 AM (view original):
I'm waiting to hear about the respective FIPs of Rivera, Wagner and Hoffman.  Because that will really tell us who the best closer is.

I think we've found the "logic" jrdx is using.

Since Wagner was a better strikeout pitcher, I'm sure his FIP is better.   Sawing the bat off in the batter's hand has no value. 

Posted by jrd_x on 5/8/2012 11:23:00 AM (view original):
Did you guys miss the part where I said Rivera was clearly better than Wagner?  My point is that they aren't too far apart.  And I don't even have to use newer stats to show it.  Their career WHIPs are exactly the same.  Their career ERAs are 0.1 different.

According to MikeT's "Catfish Hunter was just as good as Steve Carlton" (TM) logic, they were the same pitcher.

The whole point is that Rivera was very good, a Hall of Famer, the best reliever ever.  But he was still just a relief pitcher.  A little better than Billy Wagner.  The skinniest kid at fat camp.  Not one of the four best Yankees of all time.  Not an inner circle Hall of Famer.

First of all Mt Rushmore isn't necessarily the same thing as "four best."

Second, Olney is the only one who said it that he belong on Yankee Rushmore

Third, skinniest kid at fat camp is a bad analogy for so many reasons.  Fat camp is a decidedly NEGATIVE place to be in because it means you're fat an unattractive.  Closers have a less positive impact than other players, but the good ones still have a decidedly positive impact.  And if you're alluding to the fact that all RP's are failed starters blah blah blah...then why haven't any other failed starters been nearly as effective as Mariano?  Do you really think any random #2/3 SP would mirror his success if they were stuck in the closers role?  Hell, would Roy Halladay or CC Sabathia even necessarily have as successful of a career as a closer?  It's not certain that they would.