+1 excellent post.  i remember when this game required no skill, it was all about coach legacy.  this forum is proof that complaining breeds more complaining.  let's stop acting like this game isn't fun as hell and a great distraction when we need it during the day.  props to whatifsports, jconte, and now norbert.

-1 I have to disagree... please hear me out - not trying to attack you personally mojolad.

Unexpected outcomes are not the complaint (or at least as I read into it).  Upsets are a great part of the game and upsets (clearly) do happen.  The problem is how these things are happening and at a rate that is just too much (no need to rehash the details as this has been done ad nauseum).

The reason why this is important is the long term impact to the game.  If these issues are not fixed soon, I would not be surprised if we see another mass exodus.  If the game has another mass exodus, revenue for GD will plummet.  If revenue for GD plummets, the business case for WIS/Fox Sports to continue running the game will go away and this great game that many of us love will no longer be available (or at best, the game is so sparse it is run without any support - i.e. norbert gets reallocated to a higher revenue generating product).

The reason why the frequent complaints are good are not for the reading enjoyment... as you noted, it is getting to be just a bit_h session and that is getting annoying.

The reason why it is good is to absolutely drill the point home with norbert and the WIS team.  If the complaints stop, the poking and prodding for WIS will go away and the sense of urgency will not be felt.

This needs to be a priority issue and needs to be solved quickly.  

I work in the software industry so I understand the process for implementing, testing and deploying system updates.  I also know about deadlines, product management and business management and this is a case where WIS needs to act and act quickly.

I am just one consumer, but as an example, I recently bought a 5 season pack.  If the issue is not resolved (or at least if a patch is not applied, with some hopeful results) when that 5 pack is exhausted, I doubt I will return.

I am hopeful, that is why I bought that 5-pack and I like the things norbert is doing.  I just hope this v3 release (or maybe an interim v2.5 release) has the urgency and is coming soon.

Posted by mojolad on 6/14/2012 10:04:00 AM (view original):
Listen, life itself is inconsistent. Sh_t happens when you least expect it; both good and bad. 
              I guess the forum is an outlet where some of us can bit_h and moan when stuff bothers us because there are so many of us here as opposed to our real life that some here will  commiserate with your view.
                     But I have to admit, all the moaning and groaning is wearing me down regarding the "inconsistency" of the game. 
                      Is it the same game as before the previous huge update when the running game was king and player core ratings ruled(when you almost didn't have to game plan if you totally outclassed a team) ?  We all know it aint that game anymore. 
                       But the variability of the outcomes brings with it something different for me. Like in life,  sometimes a great team is not taking a lousy one seriously, or they just aren't emotionally ready to play that week.  And also like in life, sometimes the lousy team has painted a target on that much better team and is up and driven to beat that better team. 
                            So you better (in GD) take those sim teams and lousy teams seriously, and do everything you can to beat them with game planning and players starting, etc. or you just may find yourself on the losing side of the score.
                             It may not be the old engine A.I., but I find it different and fun still.  And the moaning and groaning of you guys who can't accept an upset is wearing me down.

Call it b*tching all you want. If somethings broken and no one harps about it why would the owners of this game even consider fixing it? I have done my share of complaining. I don't bother anymore.

You bring up gameplanning to beat sims and lousy teams. Sorry but its broken. Complaints need to be rampant. I as a coach ask my team to run VA. What is the engine calling a good 40% of the time when I asked this? They ran inside. I set my GP to pass VA. Again I'm getting little 3 yard dump passes. This imo is not very aggressive.

Sorry but WIS needs to hear that this is broke. And if we sound like a broken record then too bad. Its not fun for me as a coach when the engine doesn't follow what I as the coach desires. If my team is going to constantly audible and change plays I as the coach am not needed. This seems to be a prevailing theme. Guys recruit and then ignore there team for 4 weeks until the next recruit season.

This isn't inconsistent its broke. Junk. I have my own business. My customers expect to receive what I sell them. The same needs to be expected of WIS but for almost two years now they haven't complied. They need to come through with this promised update and for it to be a decent product. Again so far what we've received is it now being put off from summer to fall. Sounds like the same old WIS to me.

You like the game the way it is, fine. Others don't. Complaints are hardly voiced now. The forums are dead.

welcome to the world of corporate usa, where everything gets pushed back a week every week

Bdesio and Jibe:  I don't disagree with some of your points. 
                                     I would never say the game is perfect and to leave it alone. I too hope the work Norbert is doing will make the game better.
                                  Jibe: I don't track whether the game follows my aggressiveness settings. But if you are calling Very Aggressive and it strays from what you want by that margine than the game is certainly broken and I would hope will be fixed.
                                   But I guess Ive been enjoying it the way it is(admitting it could certainly be better) and just got sick and tired of seeing the complaints(even though I  agree that without the frequent complaints nothing will get fixed).

As a coach, I want to have impact on whether my team wins or loses.  This is not real life!  The players do not ever overlook a team or have a bad day.  If you play 2 sim teams of equal talent and beat one 50-0 but barely eek out the next one in OT or by 3 points, something is wrong.  There is just too much damn randomness.

In the old engine, that kind of random stupidity never happened.  If your team was much better than another team, you usually won, and if you didn't, you'd know why.  Now, it's honestly a coin-flip sometimes.  And that's not fun.  It might be fun to the bad coaches who don't really know what the F they're doing, but it's not fun for the experienced coach.

I agree with the OP, and I know that Norbert wanted to get rid of the randomness, and that was his top priority.  Looking forward to the coming updates!

So far I have seen some highly intelligent post from people that appear to be well educated, and therefor are worth listening to.  Myself, being retired and lacking the desire to even work part time, spend time with this game just trying to win an NC, which looks doubtful.  I have been learning what I can from watching and listening to guys like those above, and do not have a mentor or ask questions because I don't understand enough to ask what I consider intelligent questions.  I mimick what I see others doing and so far have been lucky enough to win more than I loose.  I think mojo and jibe are both correct in their thinking, and I believe as bdesio said that when this game becomes a loosing business for Fox they will cut it back so much there will be nothing left for me to mimick and what will I do?  I enjoy this game more than any other I have ever played (except strip poker with the sorority girls in college) and would hate to see it go down the tube.  I appreciate you guys voicing your comments and always check to see who has posted recently.  Thanks for trying, and thanks to norbert and his team (if he has one) for the effort he makes.  Looking forward as always.  Tom

Posted by partyrock on 6/14/2012 3:18:00 PM (view original):
If the complaints stop, the poking and prodding for WIS will go away and the sense of urgency will not be felt.

That's how you feel, though it is not necessarliy a statement of fact.  From what I read from Norbert, I feel comfortable with what he says is going on with future updates.  Maybe others are not.  To me, it is a question of whether or not you have the patience to play a some-what broken game until what time they 'fix' it.  To me, and I realize others will feel differently, you take the game for what it is now and just ride it out until the next update.

I disagree on the "some-what" part... This thing is terrible.

But, I have a smidgen of hope for what Norbert is going to do though

This game isnt cheap to play and customers like me suck at getting good bowls to float me from season to season, but I do realize that Norbert has heard just about every single complaint this game has spits out.   He follows the forums and responds back when appropriate and he has mentioned what he plans on tweaking in the next update.   The complaints you see now are just the lazy *** one's who have not seen what is going to be fixed in the new update and the one's who are shutting the hell up are the ones that realize that every one is playing with the same deck of cards and no one has an advantage with this crazy arse simulation.

This game is a work in progress, I left this game 3 years ago bc I thought it was stupid how the engine made it too easy for teams to dominate.  I've actually spent more money on this latest engine bc I am actually challenged by this crazy engine... not to kiss Norberts booty, but I actually re up'd my season(s) bc I see an active programmer who gives 2 cents about my feedback on making this a better game.

Posted by flexmagnum on 6/14/2012 3:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by partyrock on 6/14/2012 3:18:00 PM (view original):
If the complaints stop, the poking and prodding for WIS will go away and the sense of urgency will not be felt.

That's how you feel, though it is not necessarliy a statement of fact.  From what I read from Norbert, I feel comfortable with what he says is going on with future updates.  Maybe others are not.  To me, it is a question of whether or not you have the patience to play a some-what broken game until what time they 'fix' it.  To me, and I realize others will feel differently, you take the game for what it is now and just ride it out until the next update.

I disagree on the "some-what" part... This thing is terrible.

But, I have a smidgen of hope for what Norbert is going to do though

The game is only terrible if you expect the best teams and best coaches to win consistently.  For many who expect to be competitive without putting in the time and effort to learn the game, the engine is fine.

So far Norbert has talked a good game but nothing of substance has been done yet.  I'll wait it out with one team to see if he can follow through.

  I hope to hell Norbert does NOT eliminate the randomness.  I could accept lessening it a bit. But to me it ads spice to party .  The game becomes boring to me if when my team reaches a certain level I know Im gonna always beat the AI teams. ZZZZ  .  At least make me work for it. 
            The old engine when running was king  if you faced an AI team there was no way in Hell the AI was gonna win; now that was a snooze fest.

Posted by iamthetwo__2 on 6/14/2012 3:11:00 PM (view original):
So far I have seen some highly intelligent post from people that appear to be well educated, and therefor are worth listening to.  Myself, being retired and lacking the desire to even work part time, spend time with this game just trying to win an NC, which looks doubtful.  I have been learning what I can from watching and listening to guys like those above, and do not have a mentor or ask questions because I don't understand enough to ask what I consider intelligent questions.  I mimick what I see others doing and so far have been lucky enough to win more than I loose.  I think mojo and jibe are both correct in their thinking, and I believe as bdesio said that when this game becomes a loosing business for Fox they will cut it back so much there will be nothing left for me to mimick and what will I do?  I enjoy this game more than any other I have ever played (except strip poker with the sorority girls in college) and would hate to see it go down the tube.  I appreciate you guys voicing your comments and always check to see who has posted recently.  Thanks for trying, and thanks to norbert and his team (if he has one) for the effort he makes.  Looking forward as always.  Tom

Tom, I hope you win that elusive NC and I hope that I'm around to see it.  I also hope that the game is understandable enough so that when you do win it its a blast for you. I won one and for some reason this engine loved my run run Nebraska team. I went 15-0 that season by running the ball. Teams since then that were no doubt as talented if not more have struggled to win any big games. This alone is whats frustrating. Today's Nebraska game is a great example. 1st half I lead Cal by 10. 2nd half I can hardly get a first down and get shutout and lose by 7. My Sr QB who previously had 2 int's in 150 pass's thrown in his career throws 2 in like 10 attempts. One of which is run back for a TD.