8/21/2012 2:12 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 7/20/2012 8:16:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 7/20/2012 7:06:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 7/19/2012 10:29:00 PM (view original):
Pitchers, no (some may disagree).  Hitters, definitely yes.
Sure, I'll disagree.   Ask anyone who used 2-3 pitchers, exclusively, in ST how long it took their 0(0) pitcher to recover.
That's flat-out abuse.

If you use your pitchers "normally" in ST, there is no long-term or cumulative effect in the regular season.

Pitchers and position players fatigue and recover differently.  Pitchers fatigue is very short-term, cyclical and predictable.  Position players fatigue is long-term and cumulative.  Overuse in spring training for a position player will result in him dipping below 100% earlier in the regular season.
I guess I should have asked you to define "normally".
8/21/2012 2:13 PM
Um . . . not pitching them when they're already under 100%?
8/21/2012 2:17 PM
Would pitching them at 100% and down to 0 in the last game of ST be "normal"?
8/21/2012 2:20 PM
Sounds like that would be an excessive pitch count.  Pitchers typically won't go from 100 to 0 on an appropriate PC for their stamina.  So I would say "no", not normal.
8/21/2012 2:31 PM
100 to 70 when they only recover 5 per day?
8/21/2012 2:34 PM
What's your point?
8/21/2012 2:41 PM
I'm trying to figure out "normally".

You know my point.   If you fatigue your pitcher in ST to a point where he can't be at 154(or whatever full recovery number you choose) before his first BL appearance, ST "counts" towards fatigue.    I'll use Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Santiago Machado as my example.  I screwed up in ST.   He threw 60 pitches at 66%.   Due to his 0 DUR, I'm guessing we were 20 games into the season before I could use him.  However, had I thrown him for 60 pitches in the last ST game at 100%, he'd still be 73% or so on Opening Day.    ST fatigue counts with your pitchers.
8/21/2012 2:52 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/21/2012 2:41:00 PM (view original):
I'm trying to figure out "normally".

You know my point.   If you fatigue your pitcher in ST to a point where he can't be at 154(or whatever full recovery number you choose) before his first BL appearance, ST "counts" towards fatigue.    I'll use Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Santiago Machado as my example.  I screwed up in ST.   He threw 60 pitches at 66%.   Due to his 0 DUR, I'm guessing we were 20 games into the season before I could use him.  However, had I thrown him for 60 pitches in the last ST game at 100%, he'd still be 73% or so on Opening Day.    ST fatigue counts with your pitchers.
Outliers (abrormally low DUR or STA) and the bell curve.



For most pitchers, the four or five "Prepare for Regular Season" days will bring them back to full recovered for the start of the regular season as long as they were used with appropriate pitch counts and not pitching when they were below 100%.  What most people would consider "normal" usage.

If you're going to start throwing the outliers into the mix, and push them (intentionally or not) beyond normal usage, then yeah . . . there's going to be carryover.

Satisfied?  "You win!"?
8/21/2012 2:56 PM
Less interested in winning and more interested in getting the facts out there. 

But.....
9/2/2012 9:00 PM
Last game just played...here are the numbers:


Player G GS QS IR IRS IBB HBP WP BK GIDP GB/
FB BB/
9 SO/
9 SO/
BB ERC BFP NP NP/
G NP/
PA
Carlos Olivares 33 33 25 0 0 0 5 4 0 27 1.55 2.85 6.37 2.24 0.00 1004 3647 111 3.63
Jason Weaver 32 32 23 0 0 1 5 1 2 28 1.21 2.36 5.69 2.41 0.00 959 3455 108 3.60
Courtney Guerrero 33 33 26 0 0 0 10 6 0 27 1.53 3.55 6.85 1.93 0.00 943 3417 104 3.62
John Takahashi 33 33 22 0 0 0 4 3 0 15 1.02 2.54 5.98 2.36 0.00 810 2993 91 3.70
9/2/2012 9:01 PM
Apparently pasting on an iPhone is goofy...
9/2/2012 11:03 PM (edited)
I haven't read this whole thread but unless I missed something why would you ever play your veterans in ST.
  Spring training serves several different roles. 1: It allows players more time for development with the big league coaching staff. 2: It allows the owner to get a better feel for how HBD works and how his players fare against tougher competition. 3: It's definitely wise not to play your starters more than half a game because they will build up fatigue as the season progresses. Also, you'll want to make sure your pitch counts are lower during Spring Training so that your starting pitchers aren't going 7 innings (the recommendations do this automatically during spring training). 4: It's very similar to real life spring training in that you want your prospects to play more and you can also use the time to evaluate non-roster invitees and fringe-type players to see if they are worth keeping on the big league club or sending to the minors. 5: Spring training is also a good time to showcase potential trade bait, determine shortcomings for trade proposals, etc. At some point in the future, we'll be adding a rust-like component to the game so that if players don't get enough PT in spring training, they'll start off slow but it's not in the game yet.
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