Player for cash discussion Topic

MikeT23
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Posted by bwb53 on 7/30/2012 5:30:00 PM (view original):
If the original trade partner claims him the it's the same as the vetoed deal. I would be doing it to help myself., not as a favor. and whether it is a good, or bad move on my part is another story. Same as the trade. It's just how you get around the closed minded, no cash , no way, not ever bunch who will veto any trade that includes cash.
So you're trying to free up 10m?   You're trading a 5m player and getting 5m in cash?

Either way, I have no problem with you waiving a good 5m player.   Knock yourself out.   There's no "I'll help you out" factor in play. 
7/30/2012 5:32 PM
hbdgirl
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Not quite the same because you'd only be losing the salary and not receiving the cash.
7/30/2012 5:33 PM
hbdgirl
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Posted by jclarkbaker on 7/30/2012 5:29:00 PM (view original):
Posted by hbdgirl on 7/30/2012 4:43:00 PM (view original):
True. But on its own, the idea of giving another owner $5M more than everybody else while bringing my total budget down to $180M is pretty unappealing. I'd have to be getting a screaming deal to agree to that.
Holy ****.  I literally cannot believe what I am reading.

Sigh.......
That's funny. I thought the same thing about 30 pages ago.
7/30/2012 5:34 PM
deathinahole
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Posted by jclarkbaker on 7/30/2012 5:29:00 PM (view original):
Posted by hbdgirl on 7/30/2012 4:43:00 PM (view original):
True. But on its own, the idea of giving another owner $5M more than everybody else while bringing my total budget down to $180M is pretty unappealing. I'd have to be getting a screaming deal to agree to that.
Holy ****.  I literally cannot believe what I am reading.

Sigh.......
Let me help you out

185 - 5 = 180.

Sitemail me if you see anything else difficult. I'm here to help.
7/30/2012 5:35 PM
bwb53
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Itrade player A to you for 5m cash and a  career minor league player. you pay 5m to me  and get player. trade vetoed
I waive same player for 5m. You claim him. you pay 5m  to me and get player.
7/30/2012 5:39 PM
hbdgirl
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Not quite. Your payroll and cap are $100M. You trade the player for $5M and receive $5M cash. Your payroll goes down to $95M and your cap goes up to $105M. You now have $10M available. If you waive the player your payroll goes down to $95M and your cap stays at $100M leaving $5M available. See now?
7/30/2012 5:49 PM (edited)
bfkfraser
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Posted by bwb53 on 7/30/2012 5:39:00 PM (view original):
Itrade player A to you for 5m cash and a  career minor league player. you pay 5m to me  and get player. trade vetoed
I waive same player for 5m. You claim him. you pay 5m  to me and get player.
Don't know what you are confused about.

1)  If you are getting $5 M in savings by having a player claimed off of waivers, it means his remaining salary is $5M.   So, in other words, the original trade would have been trading a $5M salary and receiving $5M as miket stated.

2)  Claiming a player off of waivers does not send money from one team to another
7/30/2012 5:47 PM
deathinahole
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Please God. I'm begging you. Let the light bulb come on.
7/30/2012 5:50 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by MikeT23 on 7/30/2012 12:21:00 PM (view original):
I understand the value in it.   That's not my problem.   I also understand the collusive element to it.  That's my problem.

For instance, say me, you, tec and jclark are in the same world.    tec needs 2m to sign his pick, jclark needs 2m to sign his pick.  Both offer me a decent prospect for 2m in cash and a try out camp pitcher.   Which trade do I accept?  The natural reaction is to accept the deal sent by the owner you find more agreeable because the deals are almost identical.   

Now remove the cash.  They now have to send me a decent prospect and a player making 2m for my nothingness.   Except they have to get something of value now or the deal gets vetoed.   What's the odds of all three players involved being similar?  Now I have to make a decision on which trade works best for my team regardless of my thoughts on the other owners.  Unless I'm a moron who'd rather make jclark squirm instead of making my team better.
Goes back to this.

Cash is cash.  If I have 2m extra, I only have to worry about the one prospect coming my way.    Cash removed, I have to factor in which 2m player is better, which prospect is better and, since I can't just trade crap now, who wants the better player from me.   When I have to worry about the quality of players, I have to throw out personal feelings about owners.

All I really care about is the collusive nature of cash.   It's so much easier to say "Front me 2m this season, I'll pay you back 3m next year" than it is to make an equitable trade for all to see and judge.  

Waivers gives everyone a shot and, if it's not collusion, the player has to be worth the remaining salary to get claimed.
7/30/2012 5:55 PM
mushahshi
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I didn't have time to keep up with this thread over the weekend. Has anybody, on either side of the discussion raised any new points in the last 15-20 pages?
7/30/2012 5:55 PM
hbdgirl
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No we are still arguing if $190M is more than $185M ....
7/30/2012 5:57 PM
bfkfraser
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Posted by jclarkbaker on 7/30/2012 1:13:00 PM (view original):
I hope you guys all hire accountants.  Because they have an understanding of assets, liabilities and equity.
As an accountant, I will assure you this is less about accounting and more about keeping the competitive balance.    When you set your $185M budget, you made choices.   These choices gave you advantages in some areas and disadvantages in others based upon your team makeup, strategy, and direction.   When you send money to another coach, you give said coach the ability to alleviate some of his/her disadvantages by giving them money over the 185M.   This is  not only an advantage over your team, but all of the 30 other teams not involved.   It allows a coach to shortfall an area of his/her budget if he/she expects to get cash later to make up for it.  Hence, people saying 190>185.   Not surprisingly, many of these coaches have learned this already from experience.

I will cast a veto on any trade that includes cash in excess of the difference in salaries.  If the cash is less than the difference in salaries, then I may or may not cast a veto vote depending on various circumstances including, but not limited to, the time of season, and the amount of cash
7/30/2012 5:58 PM
tecwrg
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Can somebody please kick me very hard in the nuts the next time I post in a "cash in trades" discussion?  It would be preferable to the pain of trying to get through the walls of stupidity running rampant in this thread.
7/30/2012 6:54 PM
toddcommish
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I'll do it

7/30/2012 6:59 PM
toddcommish
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50 more pages to catch up to the Lefty 2B thread....
7/30/2012 7:00 PM
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