8/7/2012 2:54 AM (edited)
A good friendly debate please.

That's what I thought we were having.  I don't know where you think you had offended me... though I am getting kind of tired of trying to discern walls of text with poor grammar (if there's an either, there has to be an or).  So this will be the last one of those I respond to.  And your last retort actually did offend me somewhat, so this will be the last of my time I waste answering you.

1.  I said "usually" rooks don't play in crunch time.  This could have a lot to do with some of your other coaching settings... and it could also have a lot to do with WIS's faulty substitution logic.  Bottom line is that your SL is supposed to be in at the end of the game, so if that's not happening, you've got something set wrong or WIS sucks.  I actually lean toward the latter.

2.  I've never seen anything documented in WIS that anything about a possession changes when the offense switches to a 3-point offense.  Please show me documented proof that it switches to highest PER instead of highest usage.  I don't doubt that it could happen without them documenting it - and it would certainly make sense on those tier 5 & 6 usage guys bombing like mad and missing - but as I said, I've never seen anything indicating that the way the engine figures a possession changes.

3.  I don't think I said anything about being right or wrong until point #3.  And that's just truth /shrug.

4.  I'm not mad... why would I be?

5.  Point #4 is a summation of points 1-3 and how you can improve your team's overall performance while still using the exploit.  Basically it's just common sense.  Duh.

6.  Point #5 (which I guess you thought I was mad?) was just another simple statement:  I have a ton of experience and know the engine as well or better than anyone still playing.  An admittedly new owner telling me that something "won't work" in the sim is like telling Tex Winters that the Triangle offense won't work in the NBA.  When I first started investigating your team, I looked at all of the players available at 100% 3pt#, 90%+, and 50%+.  I made a mental note and salary evaluation.  The best possible front court for this in the 5 minutes I looked at the list of guys is those three players... the issue comes with the back court (and the fact you only have 8 usage points up front).  Because of this (and because Yao sucks in the sim), I don't think you can win a championship with this.  I already know how I'd shut it down in a playoff series.

7.  I've looked at game logs and Wood's 1/11 debacle was a WIS ****-you-over - no stoppages in play for over 2.5 minutes, so he was stuck in the line-up until there was one.  He did seem to take a ton of shots, so you might be on to something with the perimeter thing.  He did overshoot his personal usage, so his shooting was going to be terrible.  But you won that game so... yeah.  You had one game where 2 rookies started (which means they're going to be in the game at the end).  I don't see any other time that it really hurt your cause... and the extra minutes they provide during the non-3pt phase of the game allows you to draft better players because you can skimp on minutes... but you will lose one occasionally when you get the WIS-****-you-over with no stoppages of play.

Guess what?  I've lost games because Michael Jordan fouled out in less than 20 minutes.  **** happens.


I leave you with one final thought from my original post:
Note:  this is NOT my team and I am NOT complaining about it.  I'm just wondering if you think this has the potential to be abused.  If so, then it is a problem (but with WIS - not the guy that figured it out).
8/7/2012 8:46 AM
thats the problem with text. you can't tell sarcasm or emotional,  and tone of voice is non existent. stuff like this happens.  Good day to you ash. i didn't mean to get under your skin so please accept my apology
8/7/2012 12:07 PM
I through together an exhibition team, and I just don't like the way it plays out. The options at guard are just terrible. Even if you went with ones that don't put up any 3's, your options are just too weak. Who know's though, maybe this will become the next thing.
8/7/2012 12:23 PM
guys the thing to take away from this is that admin is on it - you've done your jobs by bringing the exploit to thier attention and soon enough they will get around to fixing it - at least it's not like there are 4 or 5 4 point plays on made 3s per game or something, now that would be ridiculous 

in summary: you can all rest assured that this will get corrected soon
8/9/2012 12:31 PM
I'm just too curious about this exploit. I'm going to try it on a theme league to see if it will win me a championship.
8/9/2012 2:01 PM
I'm going to try it on a ritz cracker to see if it's delicious!
8/14/2012 8:20 PM
Congratulations on uncovering this fascinating gem, Jlg1983.  What a blast, and a true slap in the face to reality!  Messing around in simulations I had Elton go 23 for 23 on 3s for 86 pts in one OT thriller.  As has been mentioned, if Admin is paying attention then they'll address it, unfortunately.  It's not clear based on recent history to what degree they're paying attention, however.  But if they do, a friendly forewarning that the correction will most likely apply in season.  Long ago I perchance put together a team that turned out to be virtually unstoppable, winning by 30-40 per game through the first 32 games of the season.  It was all the highest FG% players, and no possession penalty was being assessed.  So despite low usage, they were collectively shooting ~ 70% from the field.  WIS made the correction and my turnovers skyrocketed.  I argued in vain that it wasn't fair to derail my team midseason, to no avail.  No big deal.  Anyway, if they don't correct this, then I'll be looking forward to more mind-bending games with a staggering "6 minutes of hell."  Thanks.
8/15/2012 1:41 AM
emarvel = abrondon, yes?
8/15/2012 8:25 AM
May I respectfully decline to answer that question, lol, on the grounds that it may incriminate me?  I will say that in addition to being a WIS legend and philanthropist, you are a detective of sherlockian proportions.  

With regard to the sim exploit in this thread, I think you're right that it's not clear whether or not this quirk will make a team championship caliber, and even if it doesn't prove advantageous, it is totally unrealistic, so WIS really ought to correct it.  We'll see if they're paying attention.  Messing around with this in sim matchups, when setting my team to intentionally foul and switching to the three point offense if trailing by 1 with six minutes to go, between free throws and threes both teams combine for more points in the 4th than they do in the other three quarters combined.  But mostly it just doesn't make sense to have the likes of Yao Ming potentially break the single game three point record in six minutes by going on a literally unstoppable shooting streak. 
8/15/2012 3:08 PM
nice...yet another reason not to play any open leagues
8/20/2012 9:11 PM
Okay, so i just spent some money on an open league, and now I see that there are two teams in my conference that are using this glitch... It's ridiculous guys, come on its a basketball simulation, what's the point of using manipulation to win a fake league? how is that even fun? i mean in a game this morning elton brand had 37 points in less than six minutes... wis should just get rid of three-point offense until it comes up with a decent way of dealing with three-point shot distribution and small sample sizes
8/20/2012 11:51 PM

Set one of these up in the 10-game free league, my team scored 74 points in the 4th and another 30 in OT, going 24 of 25 from the arc but losing 178-179.

8/21/2012 12:35 PM
I have a team set up in a free league as well. This is definitely a flaw, but I haven't seen any evidence that it can lead to a championship or even winning squad. If it was possible to create a team with this flawed logic and have it be able to win outright, then there would be a problem.
8/23/2012 5:30 PM
Name GP GS Min Pts FG% 3Pt% FT% OReb Reb Ast TO Stl Blk PF
06-07 Elton Brand 3 3 36.7 16.3 48.7 100.0 71.4 3.3 5.3 3.7 2.7 1.7 1.3 3.0
89-90 Larry Nance 3 0 32.7 18.0 54.3 0 44.4 0.7 7.7 2.0 0.7 2.0 1.7 2.3
81-82 Artis Gilmore 3 3 32.7 14.7 56.7 100.0 81.8 4.0 8.3 2.0 2.3 0.0 3.3 2.3
87-88 Buck Williams 3 3 31.3 16.3 46.7 0.0 58.3 4.0 11.7 1.7 1.7 1.0 0.3 1.3
74-75 Goo Kennedy 3 3 25.0 13.7 58.1 100.0 75.0 3.0 7.7 0.3 1.0 0.7 0.3 3.0
11-12 Shaun Livingston 3 3 24.7 8.7 52.9 100.0 85.7 1.0 2.0 2.3 2.7 0.7 0.0 0.7
70-71 Ray Scott 3 0 16.3 8.0 36.8 100.0 100.0 0.7 4.7 1.3 1.0 0.7 1.7 2.0
02-03 Kevin Ollie 3 0 15.0 5.0 33.3 0 83.3 0.0 0.3 2.3 0.3 0.0 0.0 0.3
81-82 Clint Richardson 3 0 12.3 4.0 46.2 0 0 1.3 2.0 0.7 0.7 0.7 0.0 0.7
84-85 Walker Russell 3 0 9.0 3.0 40.0 0 83.3 0.0 1.0 0.3 0.0 0.3 0.0 0.3
98-99 Corey Beck 3 0 4.7 0.7 0.0 0 100.0 0.0 0.7 0.7 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.3
TOTALS 3     108.3 48.9 87.5 75.0 18.0 51.3 17.3 13.0 7.7 8.7 16.3
OPPONENTS 3     101.0 46.9 42.5 69.0 15.0 45.0 24.3 14.3 7.3 7.0 19.7
8/23/2012 5:31 PM
Name Pos GP* Min Pts FG% 3Pt% FT% OReb Reb Ast TO Stl Blk PF
06-07 Elton Brand PF 80 38.4 20.5 53.3 100.0 76.1 3.4 9.3 2.9 2.5 1.0 2.2 3.0
81-82 Artis Gilmore C 82 34.1 18.5 65.2 100.0 76.8 2.7 10.2 1.7 2.8 0.6 2.7 3.5
87-88 Buck Williams PF 70 37.7 18.3 56.0 100.0 66.8 4.3 11.9 1.6 2.7 1.0 0.6 3.8
89-90 Larry Nance PF 62 33.3 16.3 51.1 100.0 77.8 2.6 8.3 2.6 1.8 0.9 2.0 3.0
70-71 Ray Scott C 71 21.6 14.1 45.0 100.0 79.2 2.3 7.9 1.7 1.9 0.9 1.1 2.5
74-75 Goo Kennedy SF 73 20.7 9.3 52.5 100.0 72.4 2.3 5.0 0.8 1.2 0.9 0.1 2.6
11-12 Shaun Livingston PG 73 18.8 5.4 46.9 75.0 78.8 0.7 2.1 2.1 1.1 0.5 0.3 1.4
81-82 Clint Richardson SG 77 13.5 4.6 45.2 100.0 78.4 0.7 1.5 1.4 1.0 0.5 0.1 1.4
02-03 Kevin Ollie PG 29 26.6 8.0 44.1 100.0 75.9 0.4 2.9 3.8 1.2 1.1 0.0 1.8
84-85 Walker Russell PG 21 18.0 4.0 54.0 100.0 82.4 0.4 1.9 3.1 1.9 0.8 0.2 1.8
87-88 Eric White SF 17 20.7 10.5 53.2 100.0 78.9 1.8 3.6 0.5 1.2 0.4 0.2 1.9
98-99 Corey Beck PG 41 7.2 1.9 46.2 100.0 53.8 0.2 1.1 0.8 0.6 0.4 0.1 1.1
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