Posted by moranis on 12/23/2014 4:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by AlCheez on 12/23/2014 9:49:00 AM (view original):

Posted by moranis on 12/23/2014 8:11:00 AM (view original):
Wilson was very good at Wisconsin, but his two worst games were the regular season losses to Michigan State and Ohio State, the two best teams they played during the regular season.  That said he was much better against Michigan State in the Big Ten championship, which Wisconsin won, and while they lost to Oregon was pretty damn good in that game. 

Dude, if you're going to abandon the stupid argument you made in the thread, at least have the decency to abandon the thread entirely.

wtf are your talking about.

Yeah, I'd want to forget saying Joe Flacco was worth his contract and Russell Wilson wouldn't be too.  Especially after Sunday and what that did to the only actually argument you made.

Posted by examinerebb on 12/23/2014 6:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by AlCheez on 12/23/2014 3:36:00 PM (view original):
I still think you're ultimately asking if Seattle can win titles while actually paying full price for quality quarterback play.  We can question where exactly he falls in the ranking of QBs, but I think it's clear that he's good enough that 20 million dollars a year for him isn't going to be the kind of overpay that's an absolute anchor on the team.  But it will come at a position where they were previously getting the same player at like a 90% discount.  To sustain the talent level around him at a similar level, they are going to have to find their bargains at other positions.  And let's face it, they've been benefiting from young and cheap all over the roster, so QB isn't the only place that they have some decisions to make about paying the piper.

With where the team stands now, would you actually advocate starting over at QB?

That's not quite what I was asking.  If you pay $20 million to a quarterback who can consistently take over and win a game (in-their-primes Brady, Manning, etc.), you can obviously afford to weaken yourself at other positions.  This past Sunday's performance notwithstanding (and, in fairness, it came against a gambling defense that has been torched to the tune of 500+ yards on multiple occasions this season - but he played an amazing game), I'm asking if you can afford to weaken yourself elsewhere in order to pay that money to a quarterback who can't (or hasn't shown the ability to) consistently do that.

I don't know that I would advocate it - that's why I'm asking the question.  I know NFL GMs sign him without a thought.  You don't get fired for giving Joe Flacco that contract and watching your team subsequently struggle to make the playoffs - you get fired if you let Flacco go and his replacement costs you the playoffs.

It's not what quite what you're asking, but it also kind of effectively is.  Every quarterback that you would consider a long-term solution/franchise guy in the NFL (and even some you wouldn't) and isn't on a rookie deal has a contract with an average salary of > 13,000,000.  So, unless you want to be perpetually trying to hit on draftpicks or shuffling through journeymen, eventually you're going to have to have to pay a QB at least that much.  And I think the step up from what Wilson is making now to what he actually worth is the primary issue, not any overpay.

I personally would rather pay Wilson some amount that's marginally more than what I think he's worth (and I still don't think he gets 20 million per unless he signs a Kaepernick style deal with very few real guarantees and some lofty incentives) than go back to the drawing board at QB with a team that's Super Bowl ready.

Posted by stinenavy on 12/24/2014 2:01:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/23/2014 6:19:00 PM (view original):

Posted by stinenavy on 12/23/2014 5:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/23/2014 12:56:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, he was a "nobody".    You can lead a basketball conference in TD passing, still be a nobody and still be recruited by major programs because you're a "best option".    I'm almost certain he transferred because he lost the starting job.    And the coach/AD let him do it without forcing him to sit a year.

You're tripling-down on your stupid comments. No one does it better.

Nice contribution, you dumbfuck hick from NC.   

But, of course, that's what happens when first cousins marry.   Say hello to your mom/aunt for me.

That's all you got? From NC and inbred? I'm disappointed.

I would think with the 40+ hours a week you spend on these forums that you would have some better material.

Seriously though, it's odd how you care so much about your online presence that you will defend to death even the dumbest comments you've made.

Just stating the facts.


Seriously though, you seem to think you're the arbiter of "dumb comments".   You aren't.    First, you're a dumbfuck, inbred hick from NC.   Second, you've done nothing to refute Wilson's status upon leaving NC State.   Short version is that his coach let him go because he wouldn't participate in off-season programs.   Can you think of any program that would let an elilte QB go, without waiting the transfer year, to another school because of this?   Wilson was not a highly regarded college QB when he went to WI.   IOW, a "nobody".   If you disagree, attempt to prove it.   If you're not too busy screwing your sister.

Here's a good summary of the whole thing.  Wilson definitely wasn't a big name leaving NC State, no fan outside of the ACC would have heard of him, but I live in PSU country and he was at least well thought of enough that I remember analysts around here gushing about Wisconsin's chances with him in the preseason. But clearly not some top shelf, can't miss guy.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/01/21/3552797/decock-russell-wilsons-nc-state.html

FYI though, as touched upon in the article, NC State had nothing to do with him not having to sit out the year.  They could either give him his release or not, but that's the same as any transfer.  He was eligible to play right away because he already had his undergrad degree, and in that case a player can play immediately if he transfers and enrolls in a master's program that his school doesn't have.

Posted by AlCheez on 12/24/2014 6:58:00 AM (view original):

Posted by moranis on 12/23/2014 4:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by AlCheez on 12/23/2014 9:49:00 AM (view original):

Posted by moranis on 12/23/2014 8:11:00 AM (view original):
Wilson was very good at Wisconsin, but his two worst games were the regular season losses to Michigan State and Ohio State, the two best teams they played during the regular season.  That said he was much better against Michigan State in the Big Ten championship, which Wisconsin won, and while they lost to Oregon was pretty damn good in that game. 

Dude, if you're going to abandon the stupid argument you made in the thread, at least have the decency to abandon the thread entirely.

wtf are your talking about.

Yeah, I'd want to forget saying Joe Flacco was worth his contract and Russell Wilson wouldn't be too.  Especially after Sunday and what that did to the only actually argument you made.

I didn't forget ****, my post was inline with the current discussion in the thread.  your's had nothing to do with anything,  per your usual.

Posted by AlCheez on 12/24/2014 7:51:00 AM (view original):
Here's a good summary of the whole thing.  Wilson definitely wasn't a big name leaving NC State, no fan outside of the ACC would have heard of him, but I live in PSU country and he was at least well thought of enough that I remember analysts around here gushing about Wisconsin's chances with him in the preseason. But clearly not some top shelf, can't miss guy.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/01/21/3552797/decock-russell-wilsons-nc-state.html

FYI though, as touched upon in the article, NC State had nothing to do with him not having to sit out the year.  They could either give him his release or not, but that's the same as any transfer.  He was eligible to play right away because he already had his undergrad degree, and in that case a player can play immediately if he transfers and enrolls in a master's program that his school doesn't have.

As I've said, I watch a lot of CFB.    I'd heard of him and found it odd that NC State didn't seem bothered that he wanted to play baseball too so they let him go after he was their starter for most of the last three seasons(I think Glennon was the next QB).    I recall WI believing they had everything they needed except a QB who wouldn't **** it up.   Wilson didn't turn the ball over and he was an adequate enough passer.   I don't know if he was motivated by NCS letting him go so easily or if WI just had the perfect system/team for him.   He went off.

But, at NC State, he was a nobody.   Had his career ended at NC State, he wouldn't have been drafted by the NFL.    And, IIRC, Seattle wasn't all that enamored with him, they gave Matt Flynn a huge contract, but Wilson won the job.    I think he went from 3rd or 4th on the depth chart(Carroll had traded for Charlie Whitehurst) to starter.  

Anyone who pretends they saw Wilson as some major talent in college is full of ****.

Glennon was their next QB, as mentioned in the article.  Wilson had been starting ahead of him for 2 years (really 3 since Glennon redshirted as well).  Glennon had 2 years of eligibility left but had also graduated and was eligible to transfer and play right away as well, so they basically picked 2 years of Glennon over 1 year of Wilson.

There's zero question he wasn't seen as a major talent coming into the NFL, even after the big senior year, primarily because of his height (lack thereof).  The Flynn contract is kind of irrelevant to the discussion because they signed Flynn before the draft, but my recollection is that even the 3rd round pick that Seattle used was seen as a reach at the time - and also a waste of an early round for Seattle since they presumably already had their quarterback.

The Hawks signed Flynn before they drafted Wilson.
Seattle was in love with Wilson; Schneider wanted to draft him in the 2nd round but Carroll convinced him he would still be there in the 3rd (or so the story goes). 
Their QB's in camp that year were Flynn, Tarvaris Jackson & Wilson.
All (or at least the vast majority of) of the fans assumed the actual battle was between Flynn & Jackson.  It was pretty stunning to everyone that Wilson started the 3rd preseason game and was then announced as the starter for the season.

I didn't read the article but Whitehurst last played for them in 2011.    I'm assuming he wasn't there when Wilson was drafted.   So he was 3rd on the depth chart.

I'm unsure why SEA would give Flynn a big contract if they were in love with Wilson.   Especially if they felt he'd be around in the 3rd round.  Seems to me they had some doubts about him.

The article was just about the move from NC State to Wisconsin.
 

I didn't know anything about the story of Seattle being in love with him, but Flynn's deal was 3 years, 20 million, with 9 guaranteed, so it wasn't like they broke the bank on him.  You could probably turn that around and wonder why they would use even a 3rd round pick on a guy they were lukewarm on when they already had a young QB on the roster.

The only thing for sure is that they were higher on Wilson than all the draft analysts.

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/24/2014 10:07:00 AM (view original):
I didn't read the article but Whitehurst last played for them in 2011.    I'm assuming he wasn't there when Wilson was drafted.   So he was 3rd on the depth chart.

I'm unsure why SEA would give Flynn a big contract if they were in love with Wilson.   Especially if they felt he'd be around in the 3rd round.  Seems to me they had some doubts about him.

It seems to me that when teams that don't have what they deem a franchise QB, they go out and look for one.  

A lot of people thought (at the time) Flynn might be that guy. I would guess Seattle thought Wilson could be the guy, but there is no way they knew that and there is also know way they could know for sure that they would get him in the draft.

Either way, counting on him being their starting QB the year they drafted him when they didn't even know if they would be able to draft him seems a little far-fetched.

Perhaps "intrigued by" or "love as a 3rd rounder" is more appropriate.    When teams "love" a player, they don't pass on him while thinking "Oh, we can get him next round."


Raiders are pretty damn happy with Carr.   I heard they liked him a lot well before the draft.    But they weren't trading up to get him. 

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/24/2014 12:46:00 PM (view original):
Perhaps "intrigued by" or "love as a 3rd rounder" is more appropriate.    When teams "love" a player, they don't pass on him while thinking "Oh, we can get him next round."


Raiders are pretty damn happy with Carr.   I heard they liked him a lot well before the draft.    But they weren't trading up to get him. 

I'd buy that, but I'm sure they play the risk/reward game when determining whom to draft. They probably wagered there was 0 risk of him being taken in Round 1, and some amount of risk, but still very little in Round 2.  They did end up with a Pro Bowler (Bobby Wagner) with that 2nd round pick, but it still could have been a pretty big mistake if, say, Jacksonville hadn't decided to draft a punter right before the Hawks drafted Wilson.

Counting on Jax to do something stupid doesn't seem risky. 

I'm sure teams look at all players and put a "value" tag on them.     Getting a QB who should, at the very least, be a capable back-up in the 3rd round would be a "value" pick.    And, judging from the combine scouting report, that seemed pretty safe.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/russell-wilson?id=2532975

Everybody is pretty riled up here in Seattle that Wilson got snubbed from the Pro Bowl team.  He and his Seahawks won't be eligible to play in the game anyways so I don't know what all the fuss is about.