12/12/2012 8:04 PM
New One: 
#13 Hey coach, your scholarship offer really means a lot to me. I can see myself at Colorado next season. But, another school is promising me a way to make my own name for myself. That's awfully appealing. I just can't decide yet. Got this at 11 pm on signing day as last message in a battle before kid signed. He signed with me next cycle.


12/12/2012 10:01 PM
dacj, there are a couple of those that are very similarily worded:

* Hey coach, your scholarship offer really means a lot to me. I can see myself at X next season. But, another school is promising me a way to make my own name for myself. That's awfully appealing. I just can't decide yet.

*  Hey coach, your scholarship offer really means a lot to me. I can see myself at X next season. Hopefully nothing changes between now and the signing period.

One, on the verge of signing.  The other waiting for the next available cycle to sign.
2/17/2013 3:02 PM
Edited the original post with some new information from this recruiting season in Allen, as well as updating it with the contributions of people who have posted comments. Thanks, y'all! I'd like to keep this thread going and get relative confidence on the meanings of most or all of the messages. 
2/17/2013 3:52 PM
I believe #9 means you're behind.  The last 3 times I've gotten that message the recruit signed elsewhere with no more effort from me and no other (updated) scholarship message before he signed.  I also think 'billyg' recently confirmed this was a behind message in another thread.
2/18/2013 11:11 AM
100% Slightly behind message - "Coach, thanks again for the scholarship offer - I really like your program, but I have to tell you, I may still have some other options that I want to check out yet."

2/18/2013 11:35 AM (edited)
Posted by hogstench on 2/18/2013 11:11:00 AM (view original):
100% Slightly behind message - "Coach, thanks again for the scholarship offer - I really like your program, but I have to tell you, I may still have some other options that I want to check out yet."

im not necessarily disagreeing,  but what makes you say 100% slightly behind? my impression is that you can be 100% about a message meaning ahead, or 100% about a message meaning far behind, but that you can not be 100% on a message being slightly behind. i think the massive amount of confusion on this subject (including my end), comes because of a combination of 1) there being so god damn many messages, 2) the messages not being clear (those are both a given), but just as importantly, 3) because they are SO CLOSE in wording people figure out one and accidentally apply it to another (ive done it a number of times), and 4) people think they get 100% confirmation on a message but they didn't, even though its 90%, sometimes that 10% will hit and that leads to bad information. 

so, im just looking out for #4 here. how can one know a message is 100% a slightly behind message? you can tell a ahead message, if the other guy signs after it and you are 100% sure the other coach didnt inform of redshirt or pull a scholarship (so, its not really 100%, but i think you can be at least 99%, and ill count that). i think you can 100% verify the far ahead AND far behind messages if they are the last message you got followed by a WOTS that is not even. you can also verify a far ahead, i think, if you are considered alone (not sure if you can get slightly ahead messages there if barely considered?). but i dont see how you can 100% verify anything else! at least, without asking the other coach for information, which i never count as 100%, but i suppose one could do so with reasonable safety, depending on the source. if you know the other coach's actions exactly, you can make *some* conclusions about the meaning of messages, but its highly subject to human error. in those cases i would recommend someone present their case for why something is 100% on this thread so others could try to vet it, or find any possible oversights.... however, if there are other ways to be sure of a message, or errors in my thinking here, id love to hear them - the theory on how you can be sure of a message is a pretty important thing to nail down, to get consistently quality results, IMO at least.

my personal opinion is that a complete scholarship list would be incredibly valuable and i would love to see it come together here. ill start paying more attention to my own scholarship messages, and contributing to this thread as they come up. i wish i realized there was someone (the OP) who was willing to keep track of this stuff, before tark recruiting (which just ended), so i would have had some to contribute... but now its too late. oh well, next time! it seems like it shouldn't be hard to get a complete list of scholarship messages WITHOUT meaning, i think that would be a valuable thing to get completed sooner than later, to help identify the scope of the problem. also, i think its worth trying to come up with a complete list of possible meanings - i think many people overlook that part - are there just far/slightly ahead/behind messages? what about tied? what about medium ahead/behind? are there other meanings outside of those? someone mentioned one scholarship message might mean someone is on the verge of signing, the other means they will sign in the next available cycle - not really sure what the distinction is there, honestly - but its a significant part of the problem, to nail down what meanings there are - otherwise how can we map messages to meanings? i never finished doing that myself. i think there are at least 5 tiers of messages (actually 4 would not blow me away, but i think its at least 5), and up to 7, but im not sure. any thoughts on how to prove the # of tiers of messages? i have some thoughts but would love to hear others, i think ive droned on way too long already :)
2/18/2013 11:36 AM
Posted by tarvolon on 2/17/2013 3:02:00 PM (view original):
Edited the original post with some new information from this recruiting season in Allen, as well as updating it with the contributions of people who have posted comments. Thanks, y'all! I'd like to keep this thread going and get relative confidence on the meanings of most or all of the messages. 
whoops, not the OP who was willing to do the work of maintaining the list - thanks for keeping on this tarvolon.
2/18/2013 12:16 PM (edited)
CBG, I got this message ... googled it and saw your 75% chance it may mean slightly ahead posts on this "was hoping" haha, plus I saw Tianyi got a player with this message too after sending more effort.  I did the same, send more effort to the point of having $11 - On two seperate recruits I got this after I received a message saying I was in the lead.  On one recruit, I received two more messages which made it clear I was behind and put no effort in at all (only had put like 300$ in the kid).  So, it made me think I was actually slightly in the lead with that message ... I was debating on throwing a promise or not with that message, but refrained as I would have screwed up my upcoming regular season giving him minutes.  This battle lasted till signing day at 8 AM.  I got up at 7:30 am to check if I received a behind msg or any msg at all, as I was debating on sending a promise as that's all I had left and knew it was super close.  I didn't receive a message at all,  He ended up signing with another school who was in a super serious battle with another A+ school which he lost.  Here is the order, which makes me convinced without a doubt, that it's a slightly behind message, now.  I know, it's a super "cryptic" message as you would say :)
------
1. Coach, thanks for the scholarship offer - I wish I could sign right now! (Lead)
2. If I had to give you an answer, I'd have to say no, but I just can't decide yet. I need more time. I'm sure you understand, right coach? (behind)
3. Hey coach, your scholarship offer really means a lot to me. I can see myself at Findlay next season. Hopefully nothing changes between now and the signing period. (lead)
4. Coach, thanks again for the scholarship offer - I really like your program, but I have to tell you, I may still have some other options that I want to check out yet. (barely/slightly behind)
-----
2/18/2013 1:00 PM
Yep, number 9 confirmed by Gillispie1 is behind.  I lost a recruit recently and was ahead most of the battle, I believe I had around 11,600 sunk into him and lost (d3  level).  I got this message and a few cycles later I lost(I was tapped out of money so I could give no further effort once I got the message..)
2/18/2013 4:19 PM
Yeah, I'd like to keep this going. I've been looking for something like it and haven't seen it. So if you run across a new message, post here and I'll add it back to the main list on the first page. And if you have thoughts on the message, I'll add it to the list of thoughts people have given. If this gets too unwieldy, I'll try to organize it some, but right now I think it's alright. 
2/23/2013 9:04 AM
how sure are folks that there is an even? From a programming standpoint does having an even message make sense? I imagine that there is a range of consideration for each tier (however many there are), and multiple different messages that mean the same thing/same tier. Obviously the program crunches the variables (distance (if applicable), prestige, value of effort spent, considering credit) and generates a recruiting value, then compares that to the kid's threshold for consideration (which I'm not sure is static, and which I think can vary some by school) and in case of battles determines who is leading. Since it always knows who is ahead, what is the value in even messages? I realize that they still might exist regardless of that, but I think it makes more sense if they don't exist...
2/23/2013 9:52 AM
I found another older thread with some of these messages in it from oldwarrior. I am pasting his list in here in case the OP wants to sort through and see what's different and/or not on this list already:

BEHIND
* Coach, honestly, the offer is great, but I don't know enough about you or the program to be able to say yes at this point.
* Coach, I just can't say yes right now...I'm still supposed to take a campus visit of another school. I should know more after that.
* Coach, I really appreciate you having enough faith in me to extend me a scholarship offer. I hope that you have enough faith to wait for me to visit some other schools - they really have made their programs sound great and to be honest, I'm not sure where I'll be next year.
* Coach, I'm really on the fence right now - there are a couple of other schools I really like right now too. I can't decide just yet.
* Coach, I'm really struggling right now - you have a nice program and the school is great, but it's such a big decision. I just need more time.
* Coach, it's down to a handful of schools - you're on my very short list, but I feel like I still need more information about the program.
* Coach, thanks again for the scholarship offer - I really like your program, but I have to tell you, I may still have some other options that I want to check out yet.
* Coach, you have a little more selling to do - don't get me wrong, you're close, but there are other schools that have indicated a possible interest in me.
* Hey Coach, I really love your program, but I feel like I need to give each program my full attention before I make my decision. I can't say yes right now. Sorry.
* If I had to give you an answer, I'd have to say no, but I just can't decide yet. I need more time. I'm sure you understand, right coach?
* It would be an honor to play for you at X, but I'd also be honored to play for a couple of other schools too. I'm sorry, I just need more time.


AHEAD
* Coach, I really appreciate you having enough faith in me to extend me a scholarship offer this early. That means a lot to me and unless something changes between now and the signing period, you've got yourself a player.
* Coach, thanks for the scholarship offer - I wish I could sign right now!
* Coach, you're my #1 school right now and if I could sign today, I would. Stupid WCAA and their regulations.
* Coach, you've said everything I needed to hear. I think X is the place for me. Can't wait to sign!
* Coach, you've sold me on X! Unless something changes between now and the signing period, you can count on me playing for you next season.
* Hey coach, your scholarship offer really means a lot to me. I can see myself at X next season. Hopefully nothing changes between now and the signing period.
* It would be a dream to play for you at X, but another school is really after me hard too. I'd have to give you a slight edge - right now.
* It would be a dream to play for you at X, I don't know why they make me wait to sign, but I guess that's what I have to do.
* You're my top choice right now. If I could sign today, I would! Thanks again for believing in me.

2/23/2013 10:29 AM
Most of those line up with what I had. The ahead ones in particular are pretty obvious. The one discrepancy I see is "I really love your program, but I feel like I need to give each program my full attention before I make my decision. I can't say yes right now. Sorry."

I got this after getting a slightly behind message and then sending more effort. After getting this message, just one more HV was enough to put me into way ahead messages (e.g. "You've sold me. If nothing changes between now and the signing period. . . "). Because of that, I thought it meant ahead, but slightly so. 

However, in the last recruiting cycle in Allen, I got this message, sent more effort, and got this exactly same message again. I didn't even think that was possible (I thought they only updated scholarship messages when your status changed), so I'm not sure how to interpret that. 
3/13/2013 1:44 PM
according to my recent interaction with customer service it is a misconception that scholarship messages actually mean anything and you can get ahead messages and still be behind.

3/13/2013 1:50 PM
Really? Well that would be. . . irritating. 
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