Posted by piman314 on 9/4/2012 9:50:00 PM (view original):
I can't believe I read all 24 pages of this.  This is what happens when my wife works late and my soccer game gets rained out.  I also can't believe I'm posting into this mess but it will only be once, I promise.  A few things I have questions/comments on:
1.  It is incredibly ironic that a guy who does not want his players to complain and only work harder to get better if things don't go their way seems to be complaining, for 24 pages, all of which I sadly read, instead of looking over his team and/or asking for help from the great coaches on here as to how he could get/do better. 
2.  Now I'm still fairly new at this, just about 20 - 25 seasons under my belt, but it seems that being able to promise minutes past freshman year does make some sense and goes to the main point of the argument.  For example, I promised a freshman 20 minutes this year (4 star recruit who could play and I'm rebuilding A- at Clemson in Crum).  Next year (6 open scholies) if I find a stud freshman that is better, the guy starting 20 games and playing 20+ minutes a game will all of a sudden be happy with 8 - 10 and being a back-up.  That is ludicrous but I think true.  Correct me if I'm wrong.  It seems like promises should be for the player's career. 
3.  I'd like to see promised minutes for future seasons.  For example, Coach A tells a kid, "look, sit your freshman and sophomore years (or possibly redshirt), no promised minutes, but as a junior you'll get 10 minutes and as a senior start and get 20 minutes.  Most coaches know how the player will grow each year and if you could possibly recruit anybody better, so promises like this could be made, unlike real life.  If you don't fulfill them any year the kid leaves and recruiting prestige as a coach goes down because you lie to players.  This would also allow players like bistiza to never promise any minutes.  He might lose recruits to coaches promising time over 3 or 4 years, but he seems willing to do that if  WE would not go down.  Just an idea...

#3 was what the OP asked about in the first place so if this was actually in place, the kid would of been promised minutes by the previous coach and he would of *******/moan like he did anyway and the OP would of been the one taking the rep hit instead of the other coach as he rode out of town to another school.

The only way multiple season promises can work is if the coach is stuck for those seasons at that school which usually has its flaws in implementation and other reasons.

Posted by bistiza on 9/4/2012 10:42:00 PM (view original):
milk,

I find it amazing you couldn't find a definition of statistical probability (because what you say you found sure isn't it).

I'm not wasting any more time trying to explain to you how your assumption was incorrect. It won't do any good until you get the concept of statistical probability.

You jumped to an incorrect conclusion based upon your own misunderstanding of what I said. That's all I'm saying unless you demonstrate a grasp of the concept, which if you did, it would show you how you're wrong without me having to do it.

piman,

I was seeking information and advice from other coaches. It just happens some of them went off on a crusade to prove me wrong. I don't like people using logical fallacies in an attempt to prove someone (anyone, not just me) wrong  - it's like a pet peeve. So I pointed those otu and it set people off even more. Hopefully the topic is now back on track.

It's nice to see that someone agrees kids should be willing to sit in certain circumstances. I knew I wasn't the only person out there who believed in this - now others can see that too.

I would make the addition that promised minutes stick with the coach who promises them. Once that coach is gone, if another coach comes in, no promises exist anymore.

Posted by fd343ny on 9/4/2012 11:26:00 PM (view original):
"I would make the addition that promised minutes stick with the coach who promises them. Once that coach is gone, if another coach comes in, no promises exist anymore. "

whoa nellie, we are talking about student athletes - they came to Ruritania State for an education and to the extent feasible to play ball.  I dont think that Dean Wermer would feel that the mere departure of a coach should change that relationship with the SCHOOL.  As Dean, I would expect every kid to try his hardest all the time - and I would expect every coach to stand by every promise that our SCHOOL has made.  I am shocked that someone could even think that a mere change in the coach would wipe away all of the reciprocal obligations by school and player to try their best all the time and to keep their promises.  Shocked.

Posted by ryrun on 9/5/2012 8:52:00 AM (view original):
So it's milk's fault that he took what you said as what you said rather than what you meant?  That's about the fifth or sixth time in this thread you've tried arguing that someone should ask what you meant rather than what you said.  Maybe you should try saying what you mean instead of waiting for someone to find a hole in what you said and then trying to backtrack.

Let's be clear:  YOU said something other than statistical probability.  YOU had the ability to clearly state what you meant.  YOU made an incorrect statement.  YOU got upset when someone took what you said at face value.

You could have saved yourself a lot of time by simply saying what you mean.  And this "misunderstanding" is totally your fault because you don't speaka da english too well apparently.  Say what you mean, mean what you say, and own up to it when you **** up.

ryrun,

Milk didn't take what I said for what it was. Milk took what I said for what he wanted it to be, as that would allow him to make a goofy statement he thought would poke fun at me. If milk was confused about what I meant, milk could have asked for clarification. milk chose not to do that, and that's not my fault.

When I said probability, it meant statistical probability. That should have been obvious given the context of what I was referencing.

If, however, it somehow wasn't obvious, anyone has the ability to ask rather than jump to conclusions. That would have been the responsible thing to do, but when poeple want to jump on me every chance they get for no reason, of course they'd rather take the less responsible route and attack first and ask questions later.

I said what I meant. He was so bent on attacking me he ignored the obvious meaning, didn't both asking if he wasn't sure, and went straight in for what he assumed.

You're right, though. This is the fifth or sixth time someone has tried to twist something I've said because it makes it easy for them to attack it. Try having a real conversation instead of looking to attack things and you might not misinterpret them so much.