I used Shane as AN example of a player who was all about the team, not an ideal example to match my circumstance.

It's easy to determine if someone is a prima donna 100% of the time in real life. You would simply tell them "listen, I make decisions based on a number of factors and what I think is best for the team, and if that means you don't play as much as you want or start or anything else, can you be okay with that?" If they say no, then you part ways. If they say yes, you tell them you'll hold them to it if they ever complain. Problem solved in real life.

In the sim you can't do that, but there could be something like calling the coach and he indicates to you if the player complains a lot, or a scouting report could say "I saw him complaining about playing time" or "appears content with his role on the team" or FSS could give an indication, or something.

I do get your point about either extreme being unrealistic, though.

There are scouting trip messages to that effect, although they actually don't mean anything anymore.  Have you seen the one about sitting out the whole 4th quarter and cheering his teammates on?

I am struggling to remember someone with such misplaced hard headedness. This is just painful.

Posted by girt25 on 8/29/2012 8:42:00 PM (view original):
I am struggling to remember someone with such misplaced hard headedness. This is just painful.

It's remarkable, isn't it?

Posted by bistiza on 8/29/2012 8:23:00 PM (view original):
I used Shane as AN example of a player who was all about the team, not an ideal example to match my circumstance.

It's easy to determine if someone is a prima donna 100% of the time in real life. You would simply tell them "listen, I make decisions based on a number of factors and what I think is best for the team, and if that means you don't play as much as you want or start or anything else, can you be okay with that?" If they say no, then you part ways. If they say yes, you tell them you'll hold them to it if they ever complain. Problem solved in real life.

In the sim you can't do that, but there could be something like calling the coach and he indicates to you if the player complains a lot, or a scouting report could say "I saw him complaining about playing time" or "appears content with his role on the team" or FSS could give an indication, or something.

I do get your point about either extreme being unrealistic, though.

Yes but your example was in reference to a player who wouldn't lose WE In WIS or isn't a prima donna. No Shane is not a prima donna but he definitely would not subject himself to playing 5 mpg if you were coaching Duke. If you benching him was better for the team in your eyes, he's gone. But as a freshman hes definitely telling you what you want to hear.

It's easy if they answer your questions honestly. But again in RL there are lots of kids who want to play for Kentucky and will say anything you want them to to get what they want. Doesn't mean it's true. All prima donnas are not loud characters who you can see coming from a mile off.

What this whole "discussion" boils down to is that Bistiza thinks that not every player who isn't getting enough minutes should complain.  He says that "in real life" there are players who don't/won't complain and will actually work harder trying to justify their spot on the team or to get those much desired minutes.  And "in real life" there ARE such players.  But here's the thing that he apparently can't get through his head..........THIS ISN'T REAL LIFE.  It's a basketball SIMULATION.  Players complaining about a lack of playing time are coded into the "GAME".  Notice the emphasis on "GAME".  This isn't real life.  As much as you seem to want it to be (since you've used the phrase "in real life" a countless number of times in your posts), it's just not.  It's the way the "GAME" (damn, there's that word again) is set up, so you either deal with it accordingly or you watch your players WE drop.  It's not rocket science and at this point I highly doubt that Seble would go through the work of changing what nearly all rational and sane people think is pretty damn realistic anyway.  Oh, and have a nice day.

can we talk about something productive like the need for more variety in the images used for player pictures?

+1

Posted by reddyred on 8/29/2012 9:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bistiza on 8/29/2012 8:23:00 PM (view original):
I used Shane as AN example of a player who was all about the team, not an ideal example to match my circumstance.

It's easy to determine if someone is a prima donna 100% of the time in real life. You would simply tell them "listen, I make decisions based on a number of factors and what I think is best for the team, and if that means you don't play as much as you want or start or anything else, can you be okay with that?" If they say no, then you part ways. If they say yes, you tell them you'll hold them to it if they ever complain. Problem solved in real life.

In the sim you can't do that, but there could be something like calling the coach and he indicates to you if the player complains a lot, or a scouting report could say "I saw him complaining about playing time" or "appears content with his role on the team" or FSS could give an indication, or something.

I do get your point about either extreme being unrealistic, though.

Yes but your example was in reference to a player who wouldn't lose WE In WIS or isn't a prima donna. No Shane is not a prima donna but he definitely would not subject himself to playing 5 mpg if you were coaching Duke. If you benching him was better for the team in your eyes, he's gone. But as a freshman hes definitely telling you what you want to hear.

It's easy if they answer your questions honestly. But again in RL there are lots of kids who want to play for Kentucky and will say anything you want them to to get what they want. Doesn't mean it's true. All prima donnas are not loud characters who you can see coming from a mile off.

This second paragraph is awesome! Can you imagine the coach sitting down with a recruit and his family trying to convince them that this school is the best place to spend the next four years? 

Listen kid, I know a lot of school's are interested in you. I've even seen some DII coaches at some of your games, but I am going to make you a promise right now that none of those other coaches will make you and this is a direct reflection of the program I run........I can guarantee you nothing!  If I come across better players there is a good chance you will never see any playing time until your senior year.  But here's the thing, you're going to be happy about.  You know why?  Because as the coach I will not accept you being unhappy.  When you sign that scholarship agreement, you hereby give up all your rights to any individualism.  You are now a member of a nameless team.  So, what do you say?  Will you come maybe, eventually, possibly, play at my school?

I think that is exactly how it happened in Hoosiers, actually.

You want more realism?  You're AD would fire you almost immediately.

But, seriously, thanks. This thread has been great

Very nice Milwood, very nice!

Posted by metsmax on 8/29/2012 9:45:00 PM (view original):
can we talk about something productive like the need for more variety in the images used for player pictures?

hell yeah. im ****** off that the hideously ugly are so numerous, while my beloved green-wall-having martians remain so woefully underrepresented

Posted by coach_billyg on 8/30/2012 12:34:00 AM (view original):

Posted by metsmax on 8/29/2012 9:45:00 PM (view original):
can we talk about something productive like the need for more variety in the images used for player pictures?

hell yeah. im ****** off that the hideously ugly are so numerous, while my beloved green-wall-having martians remain so woefully underrepresented

There really are a lot of ugly player pictures aren't there? I sometimes regret recruiting those players just because I have to look at their faces for the next 4 seasons...

This guy for example: www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx

Blonde hair and black eyebrows with that faint mustache....horrible. Just horrible. 

What I want is the ability to know if a guy will be a prima donna BEFORE he's on my team, because he sure wouldnt' be there now if I had known.

I should be able to recruit and have players who aren't prima donnas. THAT is reality.

You have the ability to know BEFORE. The answer is, yes, if he doesn't get minutes, he will be a prima donna about it. 

The sim is not designed to allow you to recruit players who will not behave this way. If you feel the designers should add this function I suggest you click on the customer support link at the bottom of any WiS page. From there you will find the ability to Submit a Ticket. There you can make your suggestions and will receive a reply from Customer Service. Be careful, submitting the ticket is a bit tricky, as they added an extra But Wait page that you need to get past - read the buttons carefully. Good Luck!

emy,

I get that it's a game - which is, in fact, loosely based on real life college basketball. All I'm asking is for the game to be a bit more realistic, which is not nearly as unreasonable as you seem to think. They've had other adjustments in this game for character in the past which have since been removed, and that's a much more complicated feature than the one I'm requesting. Other games, like HBD, actually have ratings such as "temper" which can determine how players react to things - that could also come into play here if they wanted it to do so.

Instead of arguing like I'm completely irrational, perhaps you should address my suggestions and deal with the fact that they are very logical and rational. Because right now you're arguing with a logical fallacy of attacking me rather than my position.

Listen kid, I know a lot of school's are interested in you. I've even seen some DII coaches at some of your games, but I am going to make you a promise right now that none of those other coaches will make you and this is a direct reflection of the program I run........I can guarantee you nothing!  If I come across better players there is a good chance you will never see any playing time until your senior year.  But here's the thing, you're going to be happy about.  You know why?  Because as the coach I will not accept you being unhappy.  When you sign that scholarship agreement, you hereby give up all your rights to any individualism.  You are now a member of a nameless team.  So, what do you say?  Will you come maybe, eventually, possibly, play at my school?
 

You're exaggerating the situation to the extreme because it fits your argument.

The real situation would be more like this:

There may be other schools going after you, but we offer you all of this (all the good things the school and the team have for that player). We also offer you the opportunity to be a part of a team of players who work well together. We have a team focus, and it offers many benefits, including more wins and a better atmosphere. We want you to be a part of that. If you want to be part of a great team like that, you may have to make a few concessions, just like other players on the team have done and will continue to do. You'll need to put the team's goals above your own, just like the other players. Or you can go somewhere else and be the best player on a bad team and have to put up with all that drama. If that's you, by all means, we'd rather see you happy and be happy ourselves. But if you want to be on a great team full of great players who work well together, then we'd love to have you.

I guess Bistiza what I'm trying to say is that the statements you make above are statements pretty much all coaches make. I'm pretty sure Eric Spo relays some of the same messages to his team of superstars, but come on we really know what's up and it's not that dissimilar in college. If you are coaching a team kids want to play for, the majority would tell you what you want to hear to make the team.