Previous coach promised minutes? Topic

""There may be other schools going after you, but we offer you all of this (all the good things the school and the team have for that player). We also offer you the opportunity to be a part of a team of players who work well together. We have a team focus, and it offers many benefits, including more wins and a better atmosphere. We want you to be a part of that. If you want to be part of a great team like that, you may have to make a few concessions, just like other players on the team have done and will continue to do. You'll need to put the team's goals above your own, just like the other players. Or you can go somewhere else and be the best player on a bad team and have to put up with all that drama. If that's you, by all means, we'd rather see you happy and be happy ourselves. But if you want to be on a great team full of great players who work well together, then we'd love to have you.""





That's a wonderful speech to give to a recruit if you don't ever plan on signing anyone.    You're missing the point of this game, and that is to win.  You seem to want to recruit practice squad players who just show up to have a warm body to run scrimmages but don't care if they play.  Those players already exist, they are called walkons. 

It's a simple solution.  Don't recruit players who aren't good enough to play.  If they aren't good enough as juniors to get on the court, what do you care if their work ethic goes down, they aren't playing anyway, so you should want them to transfer. 

You seem to think no one else has a great team full of great players.   Or that there is some magic "chemistry" factor that improves overall team performance.  This is a game representing kids on scholarship "to play basketball".  Not go to class, not get the college experience.  There is no "team focus" cause these aren't real players.  If you ever went into a recruits home and told them, "hey listen, I want you to work your tail off every day.  Now, you won't play, but that's cool cause I'll be successful and get endorsements and probably a better job with a raise, and you'll get your degree in management or whatever, but it's all about the team.  now, if that ain't cool with you, you selfish boy, who would want you" 

As a matter of fact, I would like WIS to implement that speech as an option, it would get those guys off my considering list that make  me seem to spread out. 
8/30/2012 8:55 AM

I've done some coaching, but I reckon I'm awful at it.  At work, I supervise a good number of folks at work, but I must be awful at that too.

 I have never ever coached or supervised or managed a group of people and been able to have all of them be fully satisfied, all of them working to improve with all of the effort and ability they could muster.  Just never seen it. 

8/30/2012 9:01 AM
Ehh, like I said earlier, someone is really off living in their own little fantasy world.  I would love to be a fly on the wall in this utopian world that Bistiza seems to think exists.  Would be so very interesting to see how everyone works as hard as they can, all the time, with no one ever complaining, all for the good of the team.  Problem is, that world doesn't exist.  Anywhere.  Ever.
8/30/2012 12:54 PM
If you are coaching a team kids want to play for, the majority would tell you what you want to hear to make the team.
 
Then none of it should surprise them, and they shouldn't become a prima donna about it.

If you're saying they lie just to make the team, then I would argue it is their own fault they're not playing more minutes. If they'd have told the truth, maybe they wouldn't make the team, but they'd perhaps play more somewhere else.? What they want in that situation is to have their cake and eat it too, which doesn't work.

A simple life lesson: When you try to pull a "bait and switch" or other con-artist type tactic on people, they usually don't react well.

In other words, don't tell me you'll be a team player no matter what your playing situation is because you want to be on the team, then come back two or three seasons later and make demands, because you should know better.
You seem to want to recruit practice squad players who just show up to have a warm body to run scrimmages but don't care if they play.  Those players already exist, they are called walkons. 
 
No. I want the game to be realistic and show that not all scholarship players are prima donnas.

I also expect players who are being paid to play (in the form of a scholarship) to be more grateful for the chance to get a free education. I guess anyone with even small talent in sports grows up being entitled to a free education and takes it all for granted. At least that's what some of you seem to be saying.
This is a game representing kids on scholarship "to play basketball".  Not go to class, not get the college experience. 
 
Agreed. This also means they should remove the GPA element from the game entirely, but I doubt that will happen either.
"hey listen, I want you to work your tail off every day.  Now, you won't play, but that's cool cause I'll be successful and get endorsements and probably a better job with a raise, and you'll get your degree in management or whatever, but it's all about the team.  now, if that ain't cool with you, you selfish boy, who would want you" 
 
Once again, this is taking things to the far extreme because that's the only way to support your arguement.

The real conversation would be like this: If you join this team, you'll be expected to work hard every day in practice and in the games. I will make decisions that are in the best interest of the team and all of its players, not just you as an individual, which is actually a good thing for everyone, including you. We also expect you not to take your opportunities for granted. You're getting a free college education and a chance to play for our team, whcih is great for the following reasons (list them all).
 I have never ever coached or supervised or managed a group of people and been able to have all of them be fully satisfied, all of them working to improve with all of the effort and ability they could muster.  Just never seen it. 
 
Neither have I. That's unrealistic.

What IS realistic is to make it a practice to only hire and retain those employees who will give their full effort, whatever that means at the time given the conditions of living this life.

Not everyone will be satisfied at all times, but responsible employees keep doing their jobs and giving that effort. Not everyone is always happy, but they do their jobs if they are decent employees.

If you recruit properly (either employees or in this case, fictional players), you match the desire and ability of the recruit with your needs and you get someone who does what you need them to do without the drama of anyone making demands or anything else.

That I HAVE seen and continue to see on a regular basis, so I know it happens.



8/30/2012 1:01 PM
By the way, if anyone is interested, the player in question has indicated he's likley to transfer at the end of the season.

So I've decided to "punish" him further for his isolence by setting all of his individual practice times to 0. You're not improving on my time to play for someone else, buddy.

Mwa ha ha. 
8/30/2012 1:11 PM
For crying out loud, quit using the forum as your soap box for your stance on life.  Go start a blog or update your Facebook status or something.

Bottom line - if you don't want to give him minutes, don't give him minutes and let him decide to transfer.  I don't see why this thread is 7 pages deep for such a simplistic concept and how it keeps spinning into your rainbows and butterflies outlook or fantastical behavior analysis.

Troll level expert.  Good grief.
8/30/2012 1:20 PM
Posted by gillispie1 on 8/30/2012 1:26:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bistiza on 8/30/2012 1:11:00 PM (view original):
By the way, if anyone is interested, the player in question has indicated he's likley to transfer at the end of the season.

So I've decided to "punish" him further for his isolence by setting all of his individual practice times to 0. You're not improving on my time to play for someone else, buddy.

Mwa ha ha. 
you do realize that the "i will transfer" message indicates he has approximately a 2% chance to transfer, don't you?
Exactly.  So next season, when he is still on your team, all that "punishment" will actually have backfired.  Mwa ha ha, or however that sound goes.
8/30/2012 1:32 PM
""Once again, this is taking things to the far extreme because that's the only way to support your arguement.""

It's funny how anyone who disagrees with you is taking things to the extreme.  No one is allowed to make a valid point except you. 

""The real conversation would be like this: If you join this team, you'll be expected to work hard every day in practice and in the games. I will make decisions that are in the best interest of the team and all of its players, not just you as an individual, which is actually a good thing for everyone, including you. We also expect you not to take your opportunities for granted. You're getting a free college education and a chance to play for our team, whcih is great for the following reasons (list them all). ""

Again, great speech if you have no intention of ever signing anyone.  But the response you would get from every recruit is, "umm, but I can get all that AND playing time at the other schools recruiting me. 
8/30/2012 1:32 PM
Posted by gillispie1 on 8/30/2012 1:27:00 PM (view original):
Posted by ryrun on 8/30/2012 1:20:00 PM (view original):
For crying out loud, quit using the forum as your soap box for your stance on life.  Go start a blog or update your Facebook status or something.

Bottom line - if you don't want to give him minutes, don't give him minutes and let him decide to transfer.  I don't see why this thread is 7 pages deep for such a simplistic concept and how it keeps spinning into your rainbows and butterflies outlook or fantastical behavior analysis.

Troll level expert.  Good grief.
my suspicion is he is having a way better time than the rest of us, because he is actually high enough to buy into what he is writing.
Of course he is.  He's trolling his own thread, as I said earlier, and we're all falling into his trap by responding to his nonsense.  I'm guilty of it myself, but if we quit feeding the troll, maybe he'll finally get bored and go away.
8/30/2012 1:34 PM
Posted by bistiza on 8/30/2012 1:11:00 PM (view original):
By the way, if anyone is interested, the player in question has indicated he's likley to transfer at the end of the season.

So I've decided to "punish" him further for his isolence by setting all of his individual practice times to 0. You're not improving on my time to play for someone else, buddy.

Mwa ha ha. 
I would not want anyone who had been exposed to such incompetent management and supervision
8/30/2012 1:39 PM
Posted by bistiza on 8/30/2012 1:01:00 PM (view original):
If you are coaching a team kids want to play for, the majority would tell you what you want to hear to make the team.
 
Then none of it should surprise them, and they shouldn't become a prima donna about it.

If you're saying they lie just to make the team, then I would argue it is their own fault they're not playing more minutes. If they'd have told the truth, maybe they wouldn't make the team, but they'd perhaps play more somewhere else.? What they want in that situation is to have their cake and eat it too, which doesn't work.

A simple life lesson: When you try to pull a "bait and switch" or other con-artist type tactic on people, they usually don't react well.

In other words, don't tell me you'll be a team player no matter what your playing situation is because you want to be on the team, then come back two or three seasons later and make demands, because you should know better.
You seem to want to recruit practice squad players who just show up to have a warm body to run scrimmages but don't care if they play.  Those players already exist, they are called walkons. 
 
No. I want the game to be realistic and show that not all scholarship players are prima donnas.

I also expect players who are being paid to play (in the form of a scholarship) to be more grateful for the chance to get a free education. I guess anyone with even small talent in sports grows up being entitled to a free education and takes it all for granted. At least that's what some of you seem to be saying.
This is a game representing kids on scholarship "to play basketball".  Not go to class, not get the college experience. 
 
Agreed. This also means they should remove the GPA element from the game entirely, but I doubt that will happen either.
"hey listen, I want you to work your tail off every day.  Now, you won't play, but that's cool cause I'll be successful and get endorsements and probably a better job with a raise, and you'll get your degree in management or whatever, but it's all about the team.  now, if that ain't cool with you, you selfish boy, who would want you" 
 
Once again, this is taking things to the far extreme because that's the only way to support your arguement.

The real conversation would be like this: If you join this team, you'll be expected to work hard every day in practice and in the games. I will make decisions that are in the best interest of the team and all of its players, not just you as an individual, which is actually a good thing for everyone, including you. We also expect you not to take your opportunities for granted. You're getting a free college education and a chance to play for our team, whcih is great for the following reasons (list them all).
 I have never ever coached or supervised or managed a group of people and been able to have all of them be fully satisfied, all of them working to improve with all of the effort and ability they could muster.  Just never seen it. 
 
Neither have I. That's unrealistic.

What IS realistic is to make it a practice to only hire and retain those employees who will give their full effort, whatever that means at the time given the conditions of living this life.

Not everyone will be satisfied at all times, but responsible employees keep doing their jobs and giving that effort. Not everyone is always happy, but they do their jobs if they are decent employees.

If you recruit properly (either employees or in this case, fictional players), you match the desire and ability of the recruit with your needs and you get someone who does what you need them to do without the drama of anyone making demands or anything else.

That I HAVE seen and continue to see on a regular basis, so I know it happens.



Everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too... it's only a matter of how aggressive you are in your pursuit of this that labels begin to be made (i.e. prima donna) Furthermore people change their perceptions of things constantly... especially kids.

If you have a player who agreed to your terms as a freshman... who then turns into a 1st team all american by his junior season, he's going to have some demands or at the least expect a certain level of respect from you the coach in regards to his standing on the team. This happens all the time on all levels of sports. The better you perform, the more you are rewarded (whether it's with PT, cash bonuses, attention, whatever) You up the ante. Now of course if you are a no talent bum complaining about playing time you can be gone. It's not as black and white as you think it is... there's a lot of color in this world we live in - another simple life lesson.
8/30/2012 1:41 PM
cash bonuses?  only at Kentucky.
8/30/2012 1:48 PM
Posted by emy1013 on 8/30/2012 1:35:00 PM (view original):
Posted by gillispie1 on 8/30/2012 1:27:00 PM (view original):
Posted by ryrun on 8/30/2012 1:20:00 PM (view original):
For crying out loud, quit using the forum as your soap box for your stance on life.  Go start a blog or update your Facebook status or something.

Bottom line - if you don't want to give him minutes, don't give him minutes and let him decide to transfer.  I don't see why this thread is 7 pages deep for such a simplistic concept and how it keeps spinning into your rainbows and butterflies outlook or fantastical behavior analysis.

Troll level expert.  Good grief.
my suspicion is he is having a way better time than the rest of us, because he is actually high enough to buy into what he is writing.
Of course he is.  He's trolling his own thread, as I said earlier, and we're all falling into his trap by responding to his nonsense.  I'm guilty of it myself, but if we quit feeding the troll, maybe he'll finally get bored and go away.
No way, man. I'm now sold on the core concept here.

Let's add a new attribute. We can call it Prima Donnatude (PD). It can replace Durability because nobody gives a **** about that anyway. It can be a fixed number on an inverted scale - the higher the PD rating, the more likely the player's WE is to drop.

Option 1: Consider only those recruits with low PD ratings, assured that their WE will never drop.

Option 2: Recruit from the full spectrum of available recruits, do at least a half-assed job running your team, and kick the ever loving crap out of everyone who chooses option 1.
8/30/2012 1:52 PM
Okay, I agree it probably is time to stop feeding the troll here.  However, I am curious to see if giving the guy 0 minutes in his practice plan helps him on his way to transfer.  I think many of us have wished someone would transfer off our team. If this increases the possibility of it happening, then maybe, just maybe, this thread has more usefulness than for just entertainment purposes. 

Nah, probably not!

as long as this thread seems to be about ethics and how you are obviously more ethical and a more inspiring a coach than the rest of us, don't you think it is a little childish to punish this FICTIONAL player.  I hope the rest of the players don't react to your childish behavior.  Oh, wait, of course they won't you already told them this might happen right before they signed on.
8/30/2012 1:55 PM
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