All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > 2012 Post Season Awards
10/21/2012 11:34 AM
MOY is based on final team results vs preseason expectations. Slice it up however you want, but preseason expectations were lower for the Os from pretty much every reputable source. And you talk about the East being weak? The As don't win the West without Texas completely folding down the stretch.

You guys can keep debating though. I'll just sit back and watch Buck win by a significant margin.
10/21/2012 2:07 PM
Posted by Jtpsops on 10/21/2012 11:34:00 AM (view original):
MOY is based on final team results vs preseason expectations. Slice it up however you want, but preseason expectations were lower for the Os from pretty much every reputable source. And you talk about the East being weak? The As don't win the West without Texas completely folding down the stretch.

You guys can keep debating though. I'll just sit back and watch Buck win by a significant margin.
MOY is based on which manager was the best.  The O's may have been the biggest surprise, but why does that automatically mean they had the best manager?

Melvin's A's had tougher teams on their schedule, and they won one more game than the Orioles.

And the reason Texas folded down the stretch was because the A's beat them 5 times out of 6.
10/21/2012 2:32 PM
Oh...so Texas folded because the Athletics beat them, but the O's only beat the Red Sox because the Red Sox sucked. Maybe Texas and Anaheim weren't as good as you think. And I'm still waiting for you to explain how Oakland had tougher teams on their schedule. You do realize that NYY and TB had more wins than Texas and LAA, right?

And if you'd like to get into interleague, the A's had LA, Arizona, SD, Colorado and SF x2 - total 495 wins and Oakland went 10-8. O's had Mets, Phillies, Pirates, Braves and Nats x2 - total 524 wins and the O's went 11-7. So, in other words...try again.
10/21/2012 3:10 PM
The teams in the A's division had a combined .529 winning percentage.  The teams in the O's division had a combined .505 winning percentage.  I think that's settled.

And you said that the Athletics only won the division because Texas folded at the end.  I think you need to give credit to the A's for beating a very good team.
10/21/2012 3:27 PM
Posted by Jtpsops on 10/21/2012 11:34:00 AM (view original):
MOY is based on final team results vs preseason expectations. Slice it up however you want, but preseason expectations were lower for the Os from pretty much every reputable source. And you talk about the East being weak? The As don't win the West without Texas completely folding down the stretch.

You guys can keep debating though. I'll just sit back and watch Buck win by a significant margin.
Then why bring up SOS and then switch it to final results vs preseason expectations mid-stream? 

Personal, I don't believe Melvin deserves it either (they were playing horrible before they made a bunch of moves - Give it to the GM). But don't confuse that with the facts  - the A's had a tougher schedule. 
10/21/2012 4:25 PM (edited)
I switched to your criteria. Make up your mind which one you want to go with.

And jm - I was making a point. I said the O's contributed plenty to the Red Sox terrible record by going like 13-5 against them and you refuted it and said it was because the Sox just sucked. Maybe Texas wasn't as good as everyone thought - they were not good at all in September.

As far as strength of schedule - the O's interleague opponents put up 30 more wins this season than the A's opponents and the O's had a better interleague record. It evens out.
10/21/2012 5:12 PM
OK, according to playoffstatus.com, the A's had a stronger SOS.  Just barely.  So let's call that even.

Yes, the O's contributed to the Red Sox record.  But the Sox were also 64-80 against everyone but the Orioles.  So they still did suck.

The Rangers were 13-10 in September against everyone but the A's.  They only collapsed because they ran into the Athletics, who were on a roll at that point.

I like Melvin for MOY because he won with a bunch of unproven players.  But it wouldn't be terrible if Showalter won.

I also agree with mitch, GM's deserve way more credit.
10/22/2012 12:56 PM
Just give it to both of them & be fair. Honestly, they both deserve it!
10/22/2012 1:15 PM
At the end of June, the A's were 5 games under .500. Then they made moves and started winning, Melvin doesn't deserve ****. 
10/23/2012 2:02 PM
Well, jtp seems to think Showalter deserves it because Baltimore pitchers were better than expected.  Apparently he was putting on their uniforms and trotting himself out to the mound, because he's responsible for that and deserves an award for it.
10/23/2012 2:04 PM
Well someone has to win it. Might as well give it to the guy whose team was good from the start. 
10/23/2012 5:33 PM
Posted by dahsdebater on 10/23/2012 2:02:00 PM (view original):
Well, jtp seems to think Showalter deserves it because Baltimore pitchers were better than expected.  Apparently he was putting on their uniforms and trotting himself out to the mound, because he's responsible for that and deserves an award for it.
It's called managing a team. Guys were on a short leash to produce and Buck constantly shuffled to get everything he could out of his players. And no, not all managers do that - and most don't even half to.
10/23/2012 8:20 PM
I'm sorry, I didn't realize the manager made his pitchers pitch better.  Oh wait.  That's because it's bullshit.  Give Rick Adair Pitching Coach of the Year if you want, but at least come up with a better argument for Buck as Manager of the Year than "the pitchers did better than previously."  For example, better than last year WHEN HE WAS ALSO THE MANAGER.
10/23/2012 8:36 PM
Ah hell, just give it to Jim Leyland - problem solved.

10/23/2012 9:16 PM
Managers = overrated. You should argue about something else.
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