All Forums > General Discussion > Non-Sports > Real Opinions? Who Do You Vote For And Why?
10/29/2012 4:08 PM

The other problem with Obamacare was the politics needed to pass it and put it into law.  Backdoor deals and plenty of pork to buy votes in both the House and the Senate.

One can (and will) argue that backdoor deals are part of the political process.  But if this program is so wonderful and necessary, shouldn't it be able to pass on it's own merit?

10/29/2012 4:44 PM
The bigger problem with healthcare is the cost and insurance coverage.   Obamacare doesn't really address that other than to say "This is what will be paid."   Doctors now have to decide the "write-off" as tec mention or to deny service to those whose insurance won't pay the desired price.   Therefore, those on medicaid and whatever abomination that is Obamacare will have less options.   Less options = longer waits and, quite possibly, less quality in care.
10/29/2012 5:01 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 10/29/2012 4:08:00 PM (view original):

The other problem with Obamacare was the politics needed to pass it and put it into law.  Backdoor deals and plenty of pork to buy votes in both the House and the Senate.

One can (and will) argue that backdoor deals are part of the political process.  But if this program is so wonderful and necessary, shouldn't it be able to pass on it's own merit?

Don't be naive. Partisanship rules Congress. What the bill actual does rarely matters.
10/29/2012 6:26 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/29/2012 4:44:00 PM (view original):
The bigger problem with healthcare is the cost and insurance coverage.   Obamacare doesn't really address that other than to say "This is what will be paid."   Doctors now have to decide the "write-off" as tec mention or to deny service to those whose insurance won't pay the desired price.   Therefore, those on medicaid and whatever abomination that is Obamacare will have less options.   Less options = longer waits and, quite possibly, less quality in care.
my father in law is CEO of a large hospital.... they have a hard enough time collecting on Medicare as is .... he seems to think more employers will do like mine and pay employees to NOT use their healthcare (I get 4% increase in my salary to do so) or they will just flat out accept the fine and put everyone on obamacare. can we afford that.... and can the government run anything efficiently.... the answer to both is no. I don't want to be dependent on the government for my healthcare. I don't want that big of a government influence in that industry. it's too important. JMO
10/29/2012 6:42 PM
Well, we have the VA as a model for government-run healthcare. 
10/29/2012 6:46 PM
Medicare seems to work pretty well.
10/29/2012 6:57 PM (edited)
Posted by bad_luck on 10/29/2012 6:46:00 PM (view original):
Medicare seems to work pretty well.
except for one minor detail.... that it's facing insolvency. you do know that, right?
10/29/2012 6:59 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 10/29/2012 5:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 10/29/2012 4:08:00 PM (view original):

The other problem with Obamacare was the politics needed to pass it and put it into law.  Backdoor deals and plenty of pork to buy votes in both the House and the Senate.

One can (and will) argue that backdoor deals are part of the political process.  But if this program is so wonderful and necessary, shouldn't it be able to pass on it's own merit?

Don't be naive. Partisanship rules Congress. What the bill actual does rarely matters.
That's why I said "One can (and will) argue that backdoor deals are part of the political process."

And the "backdoor deals" were not partisanship.  It was Democrats making deals with other Democrats to get their votes.  The partisanship came into play with no Republicans getting offered deals.
10/29/2012 7:17 PM
Why are deals portrayed as evil.

Negotiations and agreements are part of the democratic process.
10/29/2012 7:19 PM
Posted by moy23 on 10/29/2012 6:57:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/29/2012 6:46:00 PM (view original):
Medicare seems to work pretty well.
except for one minor detail.... that it's facing insolvency. you do know that, right?
Well, that's just a minor detail.    Other than that, it works pretty well, right?
10/29/2012 7:23 PM
Posted by swamphawk22 on 10/29/2012 7:17:00 PM (view original):
Why are deals portrayed as evil.

Negotiations and agreements are part of the democratic process.

Pork deals are a good thing?

10/29/2012 7:28 PM
Posted by tecwrg2 on 10/29/2012 7:23:00 PM (view original):
Posted by swamphawk22 on 10/29/2012 7:17:00 PM (view original):
Why are deals portrayed as evil.

Negotiations and agreements are part of the democratic process.

Pork deals are a good thing?

If a deal is bad then it is bad.

The concept of deals isnt bad.

Laws, people and ice cream flavors can all be bad or good, but the concepts themselves are not bad.
10/29/2012 7:33 PM (edited)
A Senator/Congressman has to choose whether or not to vote for a bill that may put him at risk in an upcoming election. If he can go back to his state/district and say, "look, I voted yes on this bill that a lot of you don't like but in return I was able to get X for you."

He'll never actually say that, and you can argue that maybe that's horrible, but that's the way the world works.
10/29/2012 7:33 PM
Posted by moy23 on 10/29/2012 6:57:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/29/2012 6:46:00 PM (view original):
Medicare seems to work pretty well.
except for one minor detail.... that it's facing insolvency. you do know that, right?
It's not actually insolvent yet. They think it will be insolvent in 10 or 15 years if costs aren't controlled. I have no problem with costs being controlled.
10/29/2012 7:50 PM
I do.  It screws over small medical practices as they continue to reduce reimbursement levels, something that Obamacare exacerbates and accelerates.  There's been a lot of lip service paid to preventative care with the passage of Obamacare, but for all the politicians (and people who run HMOs) like to talk about preventative care, you can't convince me that there is any more important element in the process of preventing significant healthcare problems than spending adequate time with physicians.  The longer you spent, the more seemingly insignificant details of your health you discuss, the more likely the doc is to catch your problem while it's a small problem and before it becomes expensive.  With reimbursement rates where they are now the average length of a non-physical well-patient visit has gone from nearly half an hour 30 years ago to around 10 minutes now.  No matter how much expensive testing we start doing, you can't avoid some things slipping through the cracks when docs are trying to rush patients in and out to make money on volume since per-patient profit margins have been dropping steadily for decades.
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All Forums > General Discussion > Non-Sports > Real Opinions? Who Do You Vote For And Why?

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