All Forums > General Discussion > Non-Sports > Real Opinions? Who Do You Vote For And Why?
11/1/2012 7:35 AM (edited)
Posted by dmurphy104 on 10/31/2012 12:26:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 10/31/2012 12:07:00 PM (view original):
On a related topic, Obamacare has impacted the amount of pre-tax money that can be funded into a Flexible Spending Account (FSA) for eligible out-of-pocket medical expenses.  The max limit is dropping from $5000 to $2500 a year, starting in 2013.

This will impact those with high out-of-pocket medical expenses as they will now have up to $2500 more taxable income to report on their 1040's.
Basically its a tax increase on those with higher medical bills. I easily spend over $2500 a year, and spent over 5k this year and maxed out. So now I am waiting until January 1 for anything that is not necessary. The reduction will have the effect of less preventive visits. Also, I believe that non prescription drugs are no longer eligible for flex.

The 1099 rule that was originally snuck into obamacare is a joke also. Extremely burdensome for small business to have to create 1099 for over $600. That had no business in a healtthcare packages.
yeah... I'm not thrilled about that. we are planning on having another baby next year.... tried to do the right thing and plan ahead so we went to set up the fsa like we did last time knowing how costly it is.... and boom.... only $2500 is allowed. that sucks. seriously. and here I thought Obama was not supposed to increase the tax burden on middle class....
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11/1/2012 8:30 AM
?bis, you're kinda new so I'll tell you something you may not know.   I don't read long-winded posts like that.   You're an unnamed face on the internet.   I don't give unnamed faces on the internet that much time to make a point.   Be brief.

Let me tell you something you may not know: If you aren't willing to read what others have to say ("long winded" or not), then you have no right to expect others to read and consider what you say either.

If you're unwilling to "listen" (i.e. read on here) to others, then you don't have a right to "speak" either. I don't listen to people who aren't also willing to listen to me.
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11/1/2012 11:36 AM
Posted by moy23 on 10/31/2012 9:23:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/31/2012 5:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/31/2012 5:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/31/2012 5:14:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/31/2012 4:50:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/31/2012 12:18:00 PM (view original):
I actually agree that regular check-ups are a good thing.    I'll try to be more clear.   

More people with insurance = more unnecessary visits to the doctor

Do you agree?
Do we need to start over at this point?
Sure.

More people having insurance will probably lead to some unnecessary doctors visits. But the benefit of more people having insurance and receiving preventative care and care for minor problems before they become major problems far outweighs the cost of the extra people who didn't have insurance before and now go to the doctor when they just have a cold.

Again, other than a yearly check up, there is no benefit to going to the doctor if you are healthy. You only go if you are sick or in pain. We want people to go when they are sick or in pain and we want people to go to the doctor if the cut on their hand needs stitches.
Yet people do it now.  They go because they can. 

Man:  "My back is hurting a little.   Gonna go to the doc to make sure I didn't do something when I was raking the yard."  

Doc:  "Yeah, you're 50 and you worked in the yard for 6 hours.   Stop and buy some Icy Hot on the way home."

Doesn't happen if sore back cost $125.   Man waits a couple of days and figures it out.

Multiply that by hundreds of thousands and you'll see why insurance goes up and quality of healthcare goes down.

We're still going in circles as you pull things out of your ***.

Yes, that happens. People go to the doctor when they have a cold. When they hurt their back. When their foot hurts.

But that $150 or $300 or $450 dollar visit is not what drives premiums up. Those are drops in the bucket compared to premiums collected for those people. What drives rates up are the people that don't go to the doctor for ten years and then get diabetes. Or have a stroke or a heart attack or get diagnosed with stage four cancer. Those bills end up costing insurance companies hundreds of thousands of dollars each at a minimum.

Increasing copays to $125 (or whatever) will only cause more people to skip the doctor more often and has a negative effect.

I'm starting to feel sorry for you.
there are so many other factors... for example you yourself mentioned a misdiagnosis.... that's not uncommonfor doctors to do. statistically speaking, the numbers of misdiagnosis are astonishing.

I personally don't think health should be an 'encouragement' thing. An intelligent person that values their life should be more than willing to front preventative costs.... otherwise why should insurers insure people that just don't care?

I understand what you are saying... but is it theory or fact? in theory it makes sense.... realistically I'm not sure it helps as much as it drives up costs and clogs the ER.

id have to see the factual cost benefit to agree with you on this one. JMO.
An intelligent person that values their life should absolutely be willing to front preventative costs. But people tend to prioritize when resources are limited. If you are worried about paying rent and eating, spending $125 on preventative care or a small medical problem might not be a high priority. Obviously that's their fault and should be their problem, but a lot of the time it ends up being our problem.

If it ends up being our problem we have to look at what policies we have in place to mitigate the problem.

Most insurance plans already (pre-Obamacare) cover preventative care at little or no cost because insurance companies understand this concept. You make it affordable to see a doctor and people who feel they need to see a doctor, do so. Sure, some of those visits are unnecessary, but in the long run, more problems are caught sooner and costs are controlled. Making it expensive to see a doctor for minor problems means people will wait until the problem is unbearable before they finally seek medical care.
11/1/2012 1:14 PM
Things people do that we KNOW(except for swampy) are bad for them:

Overeat - Obesity is a HUGE problem in everyone's eyes except swampy
Drink - There is some dispute over the benefit of light drinking but heavy drinking is bad for you
Smoke - No dispute here.   Smoking is bad for you and has little, if any, positive effects
Drugs - No dispute here either unless you're going to claim medicinal marijuana helps people deal with their health issues

Removing co-pay charges won't solve any of these problems.   No preventative care will stop people from partaking in the above.   People are going to do things that are bad for their health.   And far too many believe that there's some magic pill that will solve the problems caused by these activities.  

So why do you think that preventative care for everyone will stop, or at least slow, the health care issues in America?
11/1/2012 1:42 PM
I don't.

I think that more people getting preventative care is better than less people getting preventative care.

This entire discussion started because you said the problem with health care is too many people go to the doctor for small problems that they can take care of at home (the famous cut that needs stitches example).

I disagreed and said that I think people should go to the doctor if they feel it's necessary (I'd go to the doctor if my hand needed stitches) and that insurer's costs are mitigated if people receive care for small problems before they turn into big problems.

Raising copays to $125 (or whatever) results in less people getting preventative care and more people avoiding treatment for small problems in the hope that the problem goes away on its own.
11/1/2012 3:33 PM
At what cost?

If you don't think more people getting preventative care will stop, or at least slow, the health care issues in America what is the point?   

To clean up your ledger?

I go back to this:  "You may work your little numbers in a way that says "$800,000 because he had a stroke when he could have gone for a check-up for $100" but there's no guarantee, AT ALL, that he doesn't have a stroke anyway.   People go to the doctor, doctor says "Stop smoking", patient buys a carton of Camels on the way home.   Sure, a doctor visit might do some people some good because they'll do what they're told.   But, by and large, people don't like being told what to do.  You'd know this if you ever dealt with people.

11/1/2012 3:39 PM
Quoting yourself doesn't make your argument any better. You're just reminding everyone that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Go back to running your trucking company. Leave insurance discussions to people who actually understand the stuff.
11/1/2012 4:18 PM
This isn't an insurance discussion, dumbass.   It's a healthcare discussion.

At least try to keep up with the topic even if you can't keep up with the discussion.

I'll ask again.

If you don't think more people getting preventative care will stop, or at least slow, the health care issues in America what is the point?   

Now I'll answer for you.   "Because it will make ME feel better about MYSELF."
11/1/2012 4:24 PM
IOW, you believe that giving fat people who drink, smoke and do drugs some cheap preventative care won't really do any good but let's do it anyway just in case we can discover the random brain aneurysm.      That makes a ton of ******* sense. 
11/1/2012 4:32 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 11/1/2012 4:24:00 PM (view original):
IOW, you believe that giving fat people who drink, smoke and do drugs some cheap preventative care won't really do any good but let's do it anyway just in case we can discover the random brain aneurysm.      That makes a ton of ******* sense. 
Preventative care alone isn't going to turn America's health around, but raising copays (thereby reducing the number of people that get regular preventative care) will have a negative effect on the overall health of Americans and increase medical costs.

Please explain why you are having such a difficult time understanding this.
11/1/2012 4:44 PM
So what will turn America's health issues around?    Maybe that's where money should be invested instead of making sure that people who don't care about their health, as evidenced by their lifestyle, has insurance. 
11/1/2012 4:48 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 11/1/2012 4:44:00 PM (view original):
So what will turn America's health issues around?    Maybe that's where money should be invested instead of making sure that people who don't care about their health, as evidenced by their lifestyle, has insurance. 
What???

Health care in America is an incredibly complex beast. No one thing will solve it. But we can make incremental improvements.

I'm not arguing that Obamacare is the solution (or even a good bill) or that insurance should have to cover all preventative care at no cost.

I'm arguing that your solution (raise copays so people don't go to the doctor for small problems) is stupid.
11/1/2012 4:53 PM

The whole reason I said raise co-pays is because Obamacare is guaranteeing that eveyrone has insurance.   The point was to reduce the unnecessary visits for a stubbed toe because the newly "I have insurance".   Can you not remember yesterday?   Are you on drugs?

People who actually NEED medical care aren't going to be deterred by $25 or $125.   They're going to go to the doctor.   Because they care about their health and they need medical assistance.

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All Forums > General Discussion > Non-Sports > Real Opinions? Who Do You Vote For And Why?

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