All Forums > The Pit > The Pit > I hope I am wrong
1/10/2013 5:10 PM
I already have the politicians grabbing my *** for my wallet.  I really don't want them to go up my *** too.
1/10/2013 5:12 PM
That's what sergei is for
1/10/2013 9:03 PM
Posted by greeny9 on 1/10/2013 2:04:00 PM (view original):
lets see, Bakers' supposed rationing of care (Ive never heard of such a thing in Canada) but lets give that to him or the US's very real problem of people being denied care because of "pre-existing conditions" I think I will take the fictitious rationing of care.
That's interesting, since I have numerous friends in Canada, and they directly contradict your claim.

As to why our healthcare is so expensive, three things: 1. Our govt has limited our ins choices and required plans to cover everything; 2. We have the most advance medical care; and 3. If u think other systems are cheaper because their universal, wow. Sad.
1/10/2013 9:08 PM
Posted by greeny9 on 1/10/2013 2:07:00 PM (view original):
I wonder if Baker has EVER lived in any country outside of the States?  he seems to be an expert on how our universal health care systems work... Heck I wonder if he has ever spent any more then 1 month at a time outside of the States...  Before passing yourself off as an expert on how crappy our healthcare systems are Baker, try living in Canada or England for a year, then you MIGHT have the authority to speak about how crappy it is.
Every single person I know who has lived in either country say the systems suck. Simple stuff, no issue. Any major issue, wait, wait, wait. Oh and if you're old, bad knee, etc, you're screwed.

And why is New England filled with Canadian docs? Better pay. That's a great system u have. Drive docs out.
1/10/2013 9:11 PM
And why do Canadians flock to US for surgeries? Why doesn't Canada have enough beds to deliver all your babies? Why have Canadian women have to come here to deliver?
1/10/2013 10:35 PM
Posted by jclarkbaker on 1/10/2013 9:08:00 PM (view original):
Posted by greeny9 on 1/10/2013 2:07:00 PM (view original):
I wonder if Baker has EVER lived in any country outside of the States?  he seems to be an expert on how our universal health care systems work... Heck I wonder if he has ever spent any more then 1 month at a time outside of the States...  Before passing yourself off as an expert on how crappy our healthcare systems are Baker, try living in Canada or England for a year, then you MIGHT have the authority to speak about how crappy it is.
Every single person I know who has lived in either country say the systems suck. Simple stuff, no issue. Any major issue, wait, wait, wait. Oh and if you're old, bad knee, etc, you're screwed.

And why is New England filled with Canadian docs? Better pay. That's a great system u have. Drive docs out.
To summarize:


jclark says every Canadian he knows doesn't like their system. But he doesn't say how many (if any) he knows. And he sure doesn't say how many would prefer our system.

greeny, otoh, is an actual Canadian.


Now, who ya think has a better handle on the Canadian healthcare system? 
1/10/2013 10:55 PM
Jclark, because if he is half as charming and intelligent as he comes off here, he probably has tons of friends.
1/10/2013 10:55 PM
Posted by jclarkbaker on 1/10/2013 9:11:00 PM (view original):
And why do Canadians flock to US for surgeries? Why doesn't Canada have enough beds to deliver all your babies? Why have Canadian women have to come here to deliver?
Rich Canadians flock (if you cac call it flocking) to America because if you have lots of money you will get way better service, Ive already admitted that!  But if you are an average Joe with average problems and average money (in other words 80 something percent of the population) Canada is by far the best place of the two.

Actually from what I have read Canada has more hospital beds per capita then the US.  And you are seriously pulling a Swamp move here saying that Canadian women come there to deliver... Id guess that it is a teeny tiny minority of women that do it.  I can think of a few reasons why you would do it, if one of mom or dad is American then its likely they will have the kid born there because it is easier in that situation for the kid to get dual citizenship from Canada then from the States, or if you are very very rich you can get better service down there then up here.  Lastly if neither parent is American, but they want an easier road to getting green cards Id bet it would be easier if your child was American.

1/10/2013 11:04 PM
Posted by jclarkbaker on 1/10/2013 9:03:00 PM (view original):
Posted by greeny9 on 1/10/2013 2:04:00 PM (view original):
lets see, Bakers' supposed rationing of care (Ive never heard of such a thing in Canada) but lets give that to him or the US's very real problem of people being denied care because of "pre-existing conditions" I think I will take the fictitious rationing of care.
That's interesting, since I have numerous friends in Canada, and they directly contradict your claim.

As to why our healthcare is so expensive, three things: 1. Our govt has limited our ins choices and required plans to cover everything; 2. We have the most advance medical care; and 3. If u think other systems are cheaper because their universal, wow. Sad.
I explained how it works up here, there isnt a rationing of care, there is a BUDGET, have you ever heard of that?  The fact of the matter is Canada cant afford to cover absolutely everything!  we need to draw the line somewhere.  We dont want to be spending 17% of our GDP on healthcare like you guys do.

What is so bad about having plans that cover everything?

give me a break, our medical care isnt so far behind yours.  Im not saying its nearly a tie, but is it HALF as good as yours?  After all we spend only slightly more then half the amount you guys spend per capita on healthcare.  Ive said it already, the problem is your healthcare system values profit over and above everything, ours values human lives.  We dont have every level if healthcare run by private business like you guys.

No man, you are sad if you cant understand the basic principle behind your healthcare corps profiting on your sick, and our government doesnt.  Simple concept I think...  And guess what, it would work for America too if only the people down there woke up and realized that maybe you guys dont have all the best answers.  The arrogance of people like you Baker is absolutely astounding!

1/11/2013 12:54 PM
This is very simple.

If the plan does not cover everything someone will have to decide what you dont get.

The profits of health care industry in America are not out of line.

So how will giving health care for free lower the costs?
1/11/2013 1:08 PM
http://politicker.com/2013/01/bloomberg-slaps-down-criticism-of-painkiller-restriction-plan/

1/11/2013 1:10 PM
"But if you are an average Joe with average problems and average money (in other words 80 something percent of the population) Canada is by far the best place of the two."

Well, thanks to greeny, he has proved my point.  I have said all along that he Dems solution to the few who do not have health insurance is to make our entire system mediocre.  And greeny has confirmed that Canada is such a system.  So instead of dealing with the problem of those who do not have health care, the liberal solution is to blow up the system and make it better for those few, and worse for the vast majority.  Liberalism/socialism in a nutshell.
1/11/2013 1:30 PM
Posted by swamphawk22 on 1/11/2013 12:54:00 PM (view original):
This is very simple.

If the plan does not cover everything someone will have to decide what you dont get.

The profits of health care industry in America are not out of line.

So how will giving health care for free lower the costs?
Yah, it is simple, you set a budget that is reasonable, and you leave it like that.  Its not fair to the entire population of Canada to fix everybodies ailments.  If a guy has some super rare sickness that can only be fixed with a $5,000,000 treatment, meanwhile the guy is 65 years old, has diabetes, AIDS, and is homeless, is it right to deny him this treatment?  Ofcourse it is, he is likely to live no more then a year or two anyhow, and it will be a hellish life.  Hard decisions HAVE to be made so that our budgets dont spiral out of control.  We in Canada are taxed enough thank you.

Says you!  please explain to me how your system is good at all?  You guys spend more then double per capita on healthcare as a whole then the next country, and 3 to 4 times as much as the average 1st world country.  And yet you guys have the WORST life expectancy.  Something doesnt add up!  You like to trumpet that you have the best healthcare, prove it!

Proof is in the pudding my friend, its no mistake, all 1st world countries that have universal healthcare spend way way less then America does, and the FACT is we have as many or more hospital beds (on average) then does the USA, and we ALL have much higher life expectancy.  Why cant you understand that simple FACT?!?!?!     

1/11/2013 1:33 PM
Posted by jclarkbaker on 1/11/2013 1:10:00 PM (view original):
"But if you are an average Joe with average problems and average money (in other words 80 something percent of the population) Canada is by far the best place of the two."

Well, thanks to greeny, he has proved my point.  I have said all along that he Dems solution to the few who do not have health insurance is to make our entire system mediocre.  And greeny has confirmed that Canada is such a system.  So instead of dealing with the problem of those who do not have health care, the liberal solution is to blow up the system and make it better for those few, and worse for the vast majority.  Liberalism/socialism in a nutshell.
mediocre?  You arent worth talking to.  Yes you are right Baker, the States clearly has it all figured out.  If mediocre means we spend half of the money you guys do per capita and yet our life expectancy is several years better then yours, then so be it.  Id much rather have a mediocre system like ours then your far superior one.  Please go right ahead and convince yourself of that Baker.  Stew in your ignorance buddy.
1/11/2013 3:10 PM
greeny's new name is Fox Butterfield.
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