All Forums > SimLeague Football > NFL > Patriots 9.5 points favorites over Ravens
2/27/2013 10:12 AM
And for the record, you have said the things I claim you say.  It's in here.  Unless you're changing the definition of words again or are arguing that I didn't quote you exactly right.
2/27/2013 10:14 AM
For the record, I didn't say any of the things you claimed. I told you what I actually said. You simply made your own interpretation and argued against that instead of what I actually said.

But it doesn't matter, because this debate is over.

2/27/2013 11:22 AM
So we've settled it? Brady is a great QB. So is Manning. They both have flaws.
2/27/2013 2:05 PM
Settled it, yes.

However, I still believe Brady is an above average but far from great QB, and those of you who say he is great are tremendously over rating him for a variety of reasons which include the hype over three decade old Super Bowl wins and stats inflated by a talented team using a specific system.

Manning, however, is the epitome of an elite QB.

2/27/2013 2:08 PM
Specific system? Because you seem to be vague when describing it. 

I thought you were done.
2/27/2013 2:09 PM
The system is specific to the Patriots. How I describe it doesn't matter in the least.
2/27/2013 2:14 PM
If you're arguing a QB is successful mostly because of a specific system in place, and don't describe it, you look foolish.

Are you done now?
2/27/2013 2:15 PM
If you're not done, tell me more about how David Givens fit so well within the Pats specific system.
2/27/2013 2:26 PM
I described the basic way in which it serves to help Brady. I don't need to know every nuance of the system as though I had constructed it myself to know that it is a major reason Brady can produce the stats he has. Without that system, he would struggle mightily.

I'll be done when I say I'm done. Or you can just admit you over rate Brady.

2/27/2013 2:32 PM
So you're not done.  OK, because you said you were earlier.

The point is, you can't simply look at a player and state that "the system" makes him look good when you actually DON'T know the nuances on how it works when the system appears to look like most other offenses that are run.  How do you know that that's the reason Brady is successful?  You don't.  So instead of taking the opinion that makes sense, by looking at his numbers and assuming he's a good QB, you'll insist "the system" makes him look good.  

If you want to state something as fact that goes against the obvious evidence in front of you, you have to provide evidence.  Show your work.
2/27/2013 2:38 PM
The system the Pats use isn't the same as any other team. You keep saying that as if doing so will make it true. I already told you how it has many differences and I will not be repeating myself.

I am 100 percent confident if you took Brady off the Pats and put him on, say, the Browns and had him work with their players and in their system, he would be an average or even below average QB in terms of stats and ability to win games.

I will think you over rate Brady until you can show me a reason to think otherwise. NONE of the "evidence" you present makes me think Brady is any less over rated. You've proven nothing to me.

2/27/2013 2:48 PM
You've described the system as risk-averse, essentially.  They create mismatches, etc.  But most teams don't run offenses where they ask the QB to take many chances, and most teams will attempt to create mismatches to help the quarterback.

There's no way I'll prove to you that Brady isn't a top 10 QB of all-time.  The evidence is right in your face and you're ignoring it.  Remember, I'm not necessarily arguing that he's a "winner," I'm arguing that he puts up fantastic stats, year to year, and for his career, and that contributes to many wins. 
2/27/2013 2:57 PM
The only way I'll ever consider Brady to be anywhere close to the top 10 all time is if history is somehow re-written and the contributions of many QBs are erased.

He just doesn't measure up to the level of play of so many QBs, including a good number who have played in his own era.

2/27/2013 3:05 PM
Yeah...the "system" that's had several different Offensive Cords.  The "system" that's changed several times thought out his career.  Yeah, he's a "system" QB.  Never had to do anything outside his "system".
2/27/2013 3:07 PM
The system wasn't dependent upon keeping the same offensive coordinator, and it hasn't changed. Players were found with more talent who better fit within that system, but it's been the same the entire time. They even had Cassel using it, and it helped him guide them to 11 wins.
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All Forums > SimLeague Football > NFL > Patriots 9.5 points favorites over Ravens

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