All Forums > SimLeague Football > NFL > Patriots 9.5 points favorites over Ravens
3/7/2013 10:39 AM
O
3/8/2013 11:50 AM
You know he will struggle more based on what? When has Brady ever struggled for a prolonged period of time?

Based on his lack of skills as compared with any truly great QB.

Brady struggles any time the defense actually gets a reasonable amount of pressure on him.

The biggest example is the first Super Bowl against the Giants. An undefeated team which puts up an average of over 36 points per game suddenly managed just 14, mostly because they were in his face.

And blomar, are you ever going to understand that you can't dictate what others say on the boards? The thread isn't closed just because you wish it were so.
3/8/2013 1:32 PM
Haha!!  So, he sucks because when he's getting hit in the face he doesn't throw perfect balls.

Got it.

Dumbass.  
3/8/2013 1:57 PM
I figured you already understood, given how immensely intelligent you must be in order to throw out an insult like "dumbass". I hope you're proud of yourself for that one.

3/11/2013 12:24 PM
Posted by bistiza on 3/8/2013 1:57:00 PM (view original):
I figured you already understood, given how immensely intelligent you must be in order to throw out an insult like "dumbass". I hope you're proud of yourself for that one.

So Brady sucks when he's being hit by defensive lineman. Sure. Are there QB's who get better when they are being hit? Manning certainly doesn't get better when he's under a lot of pressure.
3/11/2013 12:27 PM
This was covered back in page 10, I think.  Brady is worse than others under pressure, because he is.  That's the evidence.

Guys, it's March.  Move on.
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3/11/2013 1:45 PM
Biz used 8 paragraphs to say what I said earlier - 

"Brady is worse than others under pressure, because he is."
3/11/2013 1:49 PM
*yawn*
3/11/2013 1:51 PM
No, burnsy, I gave specific reasons why Brady is worse under pressure than others and discussed how his actual performance in games bears that out.

You can choose to ignore that if you'd like, but don't sit there and say it doesn't exist.

3/11/2013 1:58 PM

However, the POINT is that the drop off is much greater when it's Brady than it is when it is virtually anyone else who is considered to be "great".

  • Based on what?

Brady does fine when he isn't getting hit, and that's what would be expected of any competent NFL QB - that doesn't make him great. 

  • Based on what?

But when the pressure is on and some QBs actually rise to the occasion and make plays with REAL SKILLS - decision making like Manning; running away from pressure like Vick, McNabb, etc;  making crisp hard throws like Favre; shaking off tacklers like Roethlisberger; making accurate strikes like Warner - all of these are skills Brady simply doesn't have in abundance.

  • Based on what?


Now I know someone is going to insist I'm wrong and say Brady makes great decisions, but when he's UNDER PRESSURE, he makes terrible decisions

  • Based on what?


Brady doesn't have any actual skills that make him great. It's all hype.

  • Based on what?


The stats bear this out.

  • Which ones?

As I said, look at games where the pressure on Brady notably increased if you doubt me.

  • No. You show me.


"Brady is worse than others under pressure, because he is."

3/11/2013 1:59 PM
Posted by bistiza on 3/11/2013 1:33:00 PM (view original):
So Brady sucks when he's being hit by defensive lineman. Sure. Are there QB's who get better when they are being hit? Manning certainly doesn't get better when he's under a lot of pressure.

Almost any QB will not produce the same with pressure as he does without as much pressure.

However, the POINT is that the drop off is much greater when it's Brady than it is when it is virtually anyone else who is considered to be "great".

Brady does fine when he isn't getting hit, and that's what would be expected of any competent NFL QB - that doesn't make him great.

But when the pressure is on and some QBs actually rise to the occasion and make plays with REAL SKILLS - decision making like Manning; running away from pressure like Vick, McNabb, etc;  making crisp hard throws like Favre; shaking off tacklers like Roethlisberger; making accurate strikes like Warner - all of these are skills Brady simply doesn't have in abundance.

Now I know someone is going to insist I'm wrong and say Brady makes great decisions, but when he's UNDER PRESSURE, he makes terrible decisions. For all the reputation he got for being "clutch" early in his career, he sure has choked in big moments more recently. I don't think he was ever "clutch" - he just got lucky early in his career and didn't get lucky later on.

Brady doesn't have any actual skills that make him great. It's all hype. That's what I've been trying to point out to stubborn minds for some time now.

The stats bear this out. As I said, look at games where the pressure on Brady notably increased if you doubt me. Compare them to games where the team scored a ton and easily won.

Any decent QB does well when he's not under pressure. The great ones make plays when the pressure arrives, and sometimes others do too. Brady either gets lucky and then gets called "clutch" or doesn't get lucky and the team loses as a result.


I guess Brady didn't make the plays to win the games in the Superbowls?  Also, Brady scored teh go ahead TDs in both the Super Bowls vs the NYG's.  It's was the D that failed them at the end.  That and Randy Moss letting a ball bounce out of his hands.
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3/11/2013 2:36 PM
Yeah...when Brady makes plays...it's lucky.  When he doesn't, he's overrated.  Man, you are a fool.
3/11/2013 2:49 PM
Yes, I get caught up in numbers because they tell a great deal of the story.  I don't like saying "This is true, because I said so, and it is."

Numbers on Brady under pressure, in 2011 in the link below.  He's average among QBs in sack percentage when pressured.  He is good when he does get rid of the ball.  8 TDs, 2 INTs.  

That said, these numbers do support biz's argument somewhat.  If he is considered a top 3 QB in 2011, this might bump him down a touch.  But it suggests he's 5th best that year, which is a lot better than many great QBs.  There are plenty of QBs who I'd argue are in Brady's company who take a huge hit in this category. And this certainly doesn't mean that Brady doesn't have the skills to make plays under pressure.  The numbers say he does. 

I wish I had info for other years, sorry.

www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/31/pressure-and-the-2011-quarterbacks/

I know I've said this before, but unless you back up your claims with evidence or different reasoning, I'm done arguing.


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