All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > What do you think of WAR?
2/1/2013 10:37 AM
tecwrg
Game Rating: Hall of Famer Forum Rating: Prospect
Posts: 8188 (6)
MLB - 3 NBA - 1 HD - 1 GD - 30 HBD - 77

2/1/2013 12:21 PM
bad_luck
Game Rating: Prospect Forum Rating: Prospect
Posts: 3157 (0)
GD - 1

Caple also wrote a piece arguing that runs scored is the most important individual offensive stat. So, you know, grain of salt and all.
2/2/2013 12:21 AM
Jtpsops
Game Rating: Hall of Famer Forum Rating: Prospect
Posts: 5040 (0)
MLB - 258 NFL - 2 HBD - 33

Uh oh...Mike's in classic backpedalling mode. Everyone watchout or you'll get run over.
2/3/2013 10:43 AM
cobra
Game Rating: All Star Forum Rating: Prospect
Posts: 44 (0)
MLB - 31 NFL - 1 HD - 3 GD - 3

Posted by bad_luck on 2/1/2013 12:21:00 PM (view original):
Caple also wrote a piece arguing that runs scored is the most important individual offensive stat. So, you know, grain of salt and all.
So, in your opinion, what is the most important individual offensive statistic?
2/3/2013 12:49 PM
bad_luck
Game Rating: Prospect Forum Rating: Prospect
Posts: 3157 (0)
GD - 1

There is no single most important stat. There are good ones (OPS+, BA/OBP/SLG, HR, WAR) and bad ones (RS, RBI).
2/3/2013 5:32 PM
dahsdebater
Game Rating: Hall of Famer Forum Rating: Hall of Famer
Posts: 4709 (1)
MLB - 206 HD - 98 HBD - 17

OBP is the most important individual offensive stat.  You could argue that WAR encompasses more, and if I could only look at one stat when trying to pick players for my team it would probably be something cumulative like WAR, or at least RAR, or TBA, or RC/27.  But in the real world, in which I can look at any number of stats as well as watch a player, the first stat I'd look at would be OBP.  If you look at baseball history, OBP has always been the most critical stat in terms of scoring runs.  More often than not the team that leads the league in runs also leads the league in OBP, and when they haven't they're almost always 2nd.  Last year was only the 2nd time since 2000 in which the AL OBP leader (team) hasn't scored the most runs.  Only reason I know that off the top of my head is because I've had this argument on the Orioles website before, and they happen to be a modern AL team.  But the trend is universal.  The more guys you get on base, the more chances you have to score runs, and the more runs you tend to score.  It's not just on WIS that Tony Phillips was a better offensive player than Dave Kingman or Rob Deer.  Power is nice, but if you can draw walks and get yourself on base you're contributing to your team's offense.
2/4/2013 8:10 AM
MikeT23
Game Rating: Hall of Famer Forum Rating: Prospect
Posts: 25056 (19)
MLB - 85 NHL - 1 HD - 26 GD - 1 HBD - 115

OPS.  Get 'em on, move 'em over.
2/4/2013 12:05 PM
bad_luck
Game Rating: Prospect Forum Rating: Prospect
Posts: 3157 (0)
GD - 1

I prefer looking at OBP and SLG separately. OPS combines two stats with different denominators that are on different scales.

From River Ave Blues:

The maximum OBP is 1.000, while the maximum SLG is 4.000. The answer, then, is to weight the statistics when combining. Forman went with (1.2*OPB) + SLG, and then placed that figure on a scale where 100 was league average. That made the stat easier to understand. Instead of having just a number, OPS+ put the number in context by comparing it to everyone else in the league. Now we know that when a player has a 120 OPS+ that he’s well above league average. We might not have been able to discern that by just seeing a, for example, .870 OPS by itself.

Improved as it may be, OPS+ is not perfect. For instance, Tom Tango believes that OPS+ still undervalues OBP, and that the calculation should be (1.8*OBP) + SLG. Even so, OPS+ is an improvement over straight OPS.

2/4/2013 1:47 PM
MikeT23
Game Rating: Hall of Famer Forum Rating: Prospect
Posts: 25056 (19)
MLB - 85 NHL - 1 HD - 26 GD - 1 HBD - 115

You only get one individual stat per the question.    I dare say that OPS+ is not as accessible as OPS.    As I said, get 'em on, move 'em over.    If you really wanted to stick with that, you'd need a new stat that incorporates SB/CS, SH, SF, outs that are recorded as neither and who knows what else.  Then you get into this complicated bullshit that goes away from the original question.
2/4/2013 1:49 PM
bad_luck
Game Rating: Prospect Forum Rating: Prospect
Posts: 3157 (0)
GD - 1

I think the right answer is that there is no single individual stat that should be relied on.

But, if you insist on one, OPS+ is better than OPS. The league average adjustment gives you context that OPS alone doesn't. I don't think anyone has a hard time with accessibility. If you have access to OPS, you probably have access to OPS+.
2/4/2013 1:57 PM
MikeT23
Game Rating: Hall of Famer Forum Rating: Prospect
Posts: 25056 (19)
MLB - 85 NHL - 1 HD - 26 GD - 1 HBD - 115

Since it's been quite some time since I bought a baseball magazine, I'm not certain that you're wrong.    But, as I recall, BA/OBP/SLG were listed in the previous season's stats.   OPS+ was not.    That said, the internet has largely replaced magazines for finding stats so you aren't necessarily wrong.   But, without internet access, I bet OPS+ is a ************ to find.

THAT SAID, I'm not getting pulled into one of your little technicality ******* matches today, so, OK, you're right BL.   Everyone who has access to OPS has access to OPS+.

2/4/2013 2:06 PM
bad_luck
Game Rating: Prospect Forum Rating: Prospect
Posts: 3157 (0)
GD - 1

You're the one that brought up accessibility. Don't get butt hurt.

I'd rather focus on why you think OPS is better than OPS+.
2/4/2013 2:11 PM
MikeT23
Game Rating: Hall of Famer Forum Rating: Prospect
Posts: 25056 (19)
MLB - 85 NHL - 1 HD - 26 GD - 1 HBD - 115

I know what you'd rather do.  But I said I wasn't interested.   I'd rather post pics mocking your insane desire to be "right" when there isn't a "right".

2/4/2013 2:15 PM
bad_luck
Game Rating: Prospect Forum Rating: Prospect
Posts: 3157 (0)
GD - 1

Isn't there? You don't think there's a right answer to the question of which stat is better, OPS or OPS+?
2/4/2013 3:02 PM
MikeT23
Game Rating: Hall of Famer Forum Rating: Prospect
Posts: 25056 (19)
MLB - 85 NHL - 1 HD - 26 GD - 1 HBD - 115

of 6
All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > What do you think of WAR?

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

Popular on WhatIfSports site: Baseball Simulation | College Basketball Game | College Football Game | Online Baseball Game | Hockey Simulation | NFL Picks | College Football Picks | Sports Games

© 1999-2013 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.