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http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/07/news/economy/government_assistance/index.htm

Essentially half of American households got govt assistance.    How many of them don't want it?
3/12/2013 4:17 PM
Posted by swamphawk22 on 3/12/2013 3:33:00 PM (view original):
1 Romney did lose. The fact is that a handful of votes could have changed that, as is normal in a close election. A handfull of votes could have changed both Bush wins and Kennedy's win in 60.

2 And if that happened no one would think the ideals of the left were the popular opinion.

3 So when I said America leans right you said the elections dont indiacte that. When I point out that most elections go Republican you then said that my elections dont count because they are in smaller districts and it is all gerrymandering. Wow.

4 People vote for partys that may not represent everything they believe for a single issue. Abortion, race, taxes, etc. When you go issue by issue the Right wins.
In a perfect scenario, Romney needed 334,000 total votes placed in 4 different states. Bit more than a handful.

Lies. I said more people voted for Dems than Repubs. Repubs have the house because of gerrymandering. No idea how you come up with the other nonsense. Wow.

No basis for saying the "Right" wins on issue by issue basis.
3/12/2013 4:17 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 3/12/2013 4:17:00 PM (view original):
I think I've lost your point. Are you arguing that we shouldn't ask people directly impacted by the program about cuts to the program?

My point has been that anyone receiving govt assistance and/or in the military aren't likely to argue for cuts in the programs that directly affect them.

3/12/2013 4:18 PM
Swamp, America does not lean right.  It leans left.  This is an objective fact.  Deal with it.  If your position on anything is contingent upon the concept that the majority of Americans have a conservative belief system you need to rethink it.  Again, voter registration leans left, and people who don't register to vote lean overwhelmingly to the left.  You can try to make this claim that you've now made that if you go issue by issue the right wins, and I guess that's a smart thing for you to do because it isn't really a falsifiable claim.  But it's hard to believe that people are so overwhelmingly misguided in their stated political affiliations.  I think it's a much safer assumption that people generally know themselves better than you know them, so if they say they're Democrats I'm going to go ahead and believe them instead of you.

If we're going to be really straightforward about things, the majority of the country would probably be Libertarians if we went on an issue-by-issue basis - there is probably a small majority of fiscal conservatives, and an increasingly substantial majority of social liberals in this country.  But if we're going to keep things in terms of a dichotomy, or possibly a 2-part Venn Diagram - conservative, liberal, or moderate, with these basically being synonymous with Republican, Democrat, or moderate independent - then the country absolutely, objectively, undeniably trends liberal/Democrat.  When you try to insist otherwise you sound like an even bigger idiot than normal.  Having positions you can't build a logical defense for makes you sound silly and uncritical.  Desperately clinging to "facts" that aren't facts makes you sound like a total idiot.

3/12/2013 4:19 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/12/2013 4:17:00 PM (view original):
http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/07/news/economy/government_assistance/index.htm

Essentially half of American households got govt assistance.    How many of them don't want it?
Um...you realize there's a huge amount of overlap there, right? You don't just get to add all the numbers together. It's not "essentially half." That's one third and it's from 2010, the middle of a terrible recession. As the economy has improved, those numbers have gone down.
3/12/2013 4:23 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/12/2013 4:18:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 3/12/2013 4:17:00 PM (view original):
I think I've lost your point. Are you arguing that we shouldn't ask people directly impacted by the program about cuts to the program?

My point has been that anyone receiving govt assistance and/or in the military aren't likely to argue for cuts in the programs that directly affect them.

So what? They still have an opinion on what happens to those programs (and defense spending).
3/12/2013 4:24 PM
Um. not my words.  Take it up with CNN:

"And when Social Security, Medicare and unemployment benefits are included, nearly half of the nation lived in a household that received a government check, according to the analysis of third-quarter 2010 Census data done by the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, a libertarian-leaning think tank. That's more than 148 million Americans."


When half the people are receiving the assistance, it's not that surprising that they aren't interested in cutting spending on the programs that affect them.   Again, it's just another misleading statement to say "More people prefer defense cuts than social program cuts."    Of course they do.   SP cuts would directly affect them.
3/12/2013 4:28 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/12/2013 4:28:00 PM (view original):
Um. not my words.  Take it up with CNN:

"And when Social Security, Medicare and unemployment benefits are included, nearly half of the nation lived in a household that received a government check, according to the analysis of third-quarter 2010 Census data done by the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, a libertarian-leaning think tank. That's more than 148 million Americans."


When half the people are receiving the assistance, it's not that surprising that they aren't interested in cutting spending on the programs that affect them.   Again, it's just another misleading statement to say "More people prefer defense cuts than social program cuts."    Of course they do.   SP cuts would directly affect them.
Wait, you're counting social security (a program that everyone has to pay into) and medicare (the only health insurance available for seniors) as government aid???

You will be on medicare one day. So will everyone else. Cuts to medicare affect everyone.
3/12/2013 4:31 PM
Did you even click the link BEFORE you started arguing?
3/12/2013 4:33 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/12/2013 4:33:00 PM (view original):
Did you even click the link BEFORE you started arguing?
You're using it as your source.

Are you counting medicare and social security as government assistance?

If so, what should a non-independently wealthy senior citizen do if they do not want government assistance yet would like to not die of an easily treatable medical condition?
3/12/2013 4:36 PM

I guess I'll just repeat myself.    

Again, it's just another misleading statement to say "More people prefer defense cuts than social program cuts."    Of course they do.   SP cuts would directly affect them.

Now, I'll ask a question or two.  Do you think medicare and/or social security are govt assistance programs?   Do you think "govt assistance" is another way of saying "social"?   Have you ever heard that medicare and/or social security might be cut and/or dissolved?   

3/12/2013 4:39 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/12/2013 4:39:00 PM (view original):

I guess I'll just repeat myself.    

Again, it's just another misleading statement to say "More people prefer defense cuts than social program cuts."    Of course they do.   SP cuts would directly affect them.

Now, I'll ask a question or two.  Do you think medicare and/or social security are govt assistance programs?   Do you think "govt assistance" is another way of saying "social"?   Have you ever heard that medicare and/or social security might be cut and/or dissolved?   

More people do prefer defense cuts to social program cuts. That's a fact. It's not misleading at all.

But you think saying marginal tax increases is misleading. You also think the deficit isn't real and that it could be eliminated by selling more treasury bonds. So your opinions/grain of salt/you know the deal. 

.
3/12/2013 4:47 PM
So, I'll take your return to a discussion from two weeks ago to mean you understand that you don't think the man getting government assistance is going to say "Oh, yeah, they need to cut this social program right now.  I'm getting way too much."

Thanks for your help in proving my point.

3/12/2013 4:51 PM
Now tell us about the budget that was recently passed and how you got the top secret info of it's passing.
3/12/2013 4:54 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/12/2013 4:51:00 PM (view original):
So, I'll take your return to a discussion from two weeks ago to mean you understand that you don't think the man getting government assistance is going to say "Oh, yeah, they need to cut this social program right now.  I'm getting way too much."

Thanks for your help in proving my point.

Of course he won't want to cut it. But that doesn't mean we should ignore his opinion when we try to gauge the popularity of the policy.

My return to your past ignorance is an attempt to demonstrate what a gigantic ************* moron you are. It's also an argument for you to shut your fat pie hole.
3/12/2013 4:58 PM
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