All Forums > Straight Splits
5/8/2013 4:15 PM
Seeing people rate the ratings always make me uncomfortable.  You can find a pitcher with a vsR rating that isn't ideal, but if they have 5 pitches of 90-75-65-60-60, with control of 80+, that could easily be a good pitcher.

Look at other successful pitchers and hitters in your world and try to get a feel for the various ways you can get successful players.
5/8/2013 4:35 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 5/8/2013 4:15:00 PM (view original):
Seeing people rate the ratings always make me uncomfortable.  You can find a pitcher with a vsR rating that isn't ideal, but if they have 5 pitches of 90-75-65-60-60, with control of 80+, that could easily be a good pitcher.

Look at other successful pitchers and hitters in your world and try to get a feel for the various ways you can get successful players.
From an evaluation standpoint, is there a difference between:

P1=90, P4=60 vs P1=60, P4=90
5/8/2013 4:42 PM
Good question.  I've seen "yes" and "no" as answers.  If there IS a difference, it's probably minimal.
5/8/2013 4:53 PM
WifS has said pitches are weighted from 1-5.    From what I've seen, it is minimal.
5/8/2013 4:54 PM
p1 is the out pitch, its by far the most important.  Ive read somewhere that the amount the 1st pitch is thrown is more then the rest, then 2nd is used next most then 3rd pitch and on and on.  So the 1st pitch is way more important then the 3rd which is also way more important then the 5th.

Ive given general ratings, outstanding 2nd 3rd and 4th pitches can make up for a not great 1st, as can an outstanding vsR.

5/8/2013 4:57 PM
Individual pitches are not thrown.   That's been said, and confirmed, a million times.

Even the premise that a P1 at 60 and P2 at 90 could exist if P1 was the "out pitch" would be silly.   The 90 pitch is obviously the better pitch.   What pitcher would insist that his 60 FB was his out pitch when no one could hit his 90 cutter?
5/8/2013 4:59 PM
Posted by greeny9 on 5/8/2013 4:54:00 PM (view original):
p1 is the out pitch, its by far the most important.  Ive read somewhere that the amount the 1st pitch is thrown is more then the rest, then 2nd is used next most then 3rd pitch and on and on.  So the 1st pitch is way more important then the 3rd which is also way more important then the 5th.

Ive given general ratings, outstanding 2nd 3rd and 4th pitches can make up for a not great 1st, as can an outstanding vsR.

I disagree, wholeheartedly with "p1 is by far the most important."
5/8/2013 5:02 PM
To clarify - it's the "by far" that bothers me in that statement.  I don't want newbies avoiding the 65-75-60-50 guy because the "1st pitch" is only 65.
5/8/2013 5:11 PM
As a "for example" - would you expect this guy to be better if his pitches were rearranged differently?  Stats seem to be in line with what you'd expect if the pitches were arranged "normally."  If anything, I'd argue maybe they're a little better than expected.

whatifsports.com/HBD/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx
5/8/2013 5:32 PM
by far was wrong, but it is more important.  At least from my experience.

I know MikeT Ive read the same thing that individual pitches arent thrown, I fully admit that my memory isnt the best, but Im sure I read that they weigh the 1st pitch higher then the 2nd, and 2nd more then 3rd.  Im giving advice on MY experience of the game, the mechanics of how its done is kind of moot.

5/8/2013 5:50 PM
I don't disagree that P1 is more important than P2.    It's just that this statement is blatantly wrong:  "p1 is the out pitch, its by far the most important.  Ive read somewhere that the amount the 1st pitch is thrown is more then the rest, then 2nd is used next most then 3rd pitch and on and on."

Individual pitches aren't thrown.   And "by far" is "by far" incorrect.

5/8/2013 6:48 PM
When I search/filter/rank pitchers, I search/sort by P2 rather than P1.
5/9/2013 12:30 AM (edited)
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/8/2013 4:53:00 PM (view original):
WifS has said pitches are weighted from 1-5.    From what I've seen, it is minimal.
Can't find the source, but will keep looking.

I believe I've read that, in addition to being weighted, (albeit slightly as you point out), they are also averaged.

So then no individual pitch is thrown but rather an average of all the pitches 1-5 weighted in what ever fashion WIS does it.

Although this does fly in the face of the idea put forth elsewhere that a catcher with a great PC rating reduces the chances a "bad pitch" is thrown (paraphrased). I always assumed that meant that if a Pitcher had P1-5 of 90-80-70-60-30. the 30 would be "shook off" by the catcher so to speak.

Perhaps I just misunderstand this, but can confirm that 10 points of PC is still pretty close to a .125 reduction in ERA. So IDK how to reconcile the two, unless the weight given to the pitches are somehow tied to the catcher's PC rating, but that seems rather convoluted.
5/9/2013 8:28 AM
The catcher's PC is a modifier to the pitcher's ratings.   I believe it's been said the biggest effect is on OAV.
5/14/2013 7:35 PM
Two more random questions.
A) Let's say you're developing a SS in the minors. He projects to a 90-90-90-90 in the field, but is currently 65-65-65-65. Would playing at 3B still give him a bump in the minors? I guess my question boils down to where you all play your prospects in the field - if there's any advantage anywhere.
B) Does a really low rating in one category steer you away from a potential player? I have a minor league catcher who projects to around 90 PC, Arm Strength, and Arm Rating + 60 contact, 30 power, and 65 vR/vL. The only thing is that his eye projects to a 5. Should this scare me off?
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