All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Anybody watching Spurs/Heat game...thoughts?
6/18/2013 5:10 PM


I also don't understand how winning the Celtic series would have prevented him from leaving if he wanted to. If his plan was to leave Cleveland, why would it matter if they won or lost that series? Are you saying he couldn't possibly justify leaving if the Cavs somehow won the title? There's no championship clause in NBA contracts.

of course he could have left cleveland after he won a title...he could have used any reason he wanted to leave cleveland...he could have said that he was going to miami because he loves snakes and alligators...but he wanted to use the publicly acceptable reason that he was going to chase a championship...and he could not use his predesigned excuse that he was leaving to chase a championship if he had just one where he was at...so he had to ensure that did not happen


You don't have to be from Cleveland to know that they were running things by LeBron. That's pretty much par for the course anyhow. Still doesn't negate the fact that they put a team around him that won 20 games after he left. You think he wouldn't have signed off on better moves?

lebron himself asked for mo williams and antawn jamison and shaquille oneal...it wasnt about him signing off on better moves...those are the guys that were attainable that lebron himself verbalized he wanted to play with

6/18/2013 6:07 PM
Posted by andrew5975 on 6/18/2013 5:10:00 PM (view original):


I also don't understand how winning the Celtic series would have prevented him from leaving if he wanted to. If his plan was to leave Cleveland, why would it matter if they won or lost that series? Are you saying he couldn't possibly justify leaving if the Cavs somehow won the title? There's no championship clause in NBA contracts.

of course he could have left cleveland after he won a title...he could have used any reason he wanted to leave cleveland...he could have said that he was going to miami because he loves snakes and alligators...but he wanted to use the publicly acceptable reason that he was going to chase a championship...and he could not use his predesigned excuse that he was leaving to chase a championship if he had just one where he was at...so he had to ensure that did not happen


You don't have to be from Cleveland to know that they were running things by LeBron. That's pretty much par for the course anyhow. Still doesn't negate the fact that they put a team around him that won 20 games after he left. You think he wouldn't have signed off on better moves?

lebron himself asked for mo williams and antawn jamison and shaquille oneal...it wasnt about him signing off on better moves...those are the guys that were attainable that lebron himself verbalized he wanted to play with

Shame those were the best players they had the chance to acquire in his 7 years there...

I think you're missing the forest for the trees here - my point is when you look at the totality of their attempts to get LeBron help while he was there, it comes up incredibly wanting.  Maybe they made some dumb moves toward the end in trying to please him, but they weren't doing very well up to that point to begin with.
6/18/2013 6:39 PM
Posted by AlCheez on 6/18/2013 6:07:00 PM (view original):
Posted by andrew5975 on 6/18/2013 5:10:00 PM (view original):


I also don't understand how winning the Celtic series would have prevented him from leaving if he wanted to. If his plan was to leave Cleveland, why would it matter if they won or lost that series? Are you saying he couldn't possibly justify leaving if the Cavs somehow won the title? There's no championship clause in NBA contracts.

of course he could have left cleveland after he won a title...he could have used any reason he wanted to leave cleveland...he could have said that he was going to miami because he loves snakes and alligators...but he wanted to use the publicly acceptable reason that he was going to chase a championship...and he could not use his predesigned excuse that he was leaving to chase a championship if he had just one where he was at...so he had to ensure that did not happen


You don't have to be from Cleveland to know that they were running things by LeBron. That's pretty much par for the course anyhow. Still doesn't negate the fact that they put a team around him that won 20 games after he left. You think he wouldn't have signed off on better moves?

lebron himself asked for mo williams and antawn jamison and shaquille oneal...it wasnt about him signing off on better moves...those are the guys that were attainable that lebron himself verbalized he wanted to play with

Shame those were the best players they had the chance to acquire in his 7 years there...

I think you're missing the forest for the trees here - my point is when you look at the totality of their attempts to get LeBron help while he was there, it comes up incredibly wanting.  Maybe they made some dumb moves toward the end in trying to please him, but they weren't doing very well up to that point to begin with.
i completely agree with you al. i said that earlier...the cavs front office did not do its job...and they compounded the problem when they started listening to lebron. but since then, danny ferry is out as gm...and the jury is still out on their new gm chris grant...obviously kyrie irving is a slam dunk...but the jury is still out on tristan thompson and dion waiters and tyler zeller...and this years draft will be critical in shaping their future (another #1 draft pick and 4 of the top 33 draft choices)
6/18/2013 6:47 PM
Posted by bistiza on 6/18/2013 5:24:00 PM (view original):
It pretty clearly means that you feel justified in jumping to conclusions about what someone else means, but are somehow horrified when someone jumps to conclusions about you.

Couple of things:

1. It didn't "pretty clearly" mean anything at all, and you offered no explanation.

2. If LeBron had said at a press conference "yeah, I quit, but it was because the Boston players bullied me", then he's admitting to quitting and offering an excuse as to why he did so. There's no jumping to a conclusion involved there. You're just trying to pretend there is because you want to create a problem with what I've said, but none actually exists.
You've now assumed the exact words he said in this hypothetical instead of the context in which kmason was describing it.
6/18/2013 7:05 PM
If you want to look where the Cavs front office faltered, look no further than Larry Hughes.

Cavs had huge cap space and needed a shooter. They couldn't convince Ray Allen or Michael Redd to sign with them and ended up with a SG that couldn't shoot. He eventually got traded, but only for other players that filled up the cap.

Cavs refusing to include JJ Hickson in a trade for Amare Stoudemire was another mistake.
6/18/2013 7:51 PM
Posted by stinenavy on 6/18/2013 7:05:00 PM (view original):
If you want to look where the Cavs front office faltered, look no further than Larry Hughes.

Cavs had huge cap space and needed a shooter. They couldn't convince Ray Allen or Michael Redd to sign with them and ended up with a SG that couldn't shoot. He eventually got traded, but only for other players that filled up the cap.

Cavs refusing to include JJ Hickson in a trade for Amare Stoudemire was another mistake.
you are right on with your observations stine. thats kind of what worries me about dion waiters...hes a pretty good scorer...but not a "shooter"...and playing at the 2 in the nba...i want a shooter. i think he would make an excellent 6th man though...could come off the bench and play either of the guard spots and be an effective scorer for the 2nd team
6/18/2013 10:19 PM
How was I supposed to understand the exact words Lebron James would say in your stupid hypothetical which was assuming facts that kmason didn't originally state?

This is probably the dumbest conversation I've ever been apart of, but it's tough to stop because I actually think you think you're making sense, and I don't want you to feel justified in thinking that if I stop. Such a tough decision...
6/19/2013 12:37 AM
I was very disappointed to see the Spurs lose... I used to hate them back in the Piston glory days, but now I cheer for anyone going against the Heat. I really thought this game was the Spurs' golden chance, and they let it slip away. The Heat sort of make me want to stop watching the NBA (haha but I could never pull the trigger, and ACTUALLY stop), although I secretly am a Bosh fan, and the bright side to the game for me was seeing him play so well at the end.
6/19/2013 12:52 AM
The Spurs blew their chance at a championship tonight.  They had that game won a couple of different times and let it slip away.  Up 5 with 28.2, miss a key free throw in there, fail to grab two rebounds that would have all but iced it, not to mention being up double digits heading into the period anyway.  Then in OT, they had a chance to take control and go up 4 but Parker split his free throw attempts, and Ginobili was nothing but a turnover machine all night.  Always been a Duncan fan and really wanted to see him get his ring for his thumb, but that was their best chance tonight.  After all the energy, blood, sweat, and tears (not to mention a vintage TD line),  I think their chances of stealing game 7 in Miami are just about nil.  Hate to see the crybabies from Miami (does ANYONE cry about getting fouled more than Dwyane Wade?) win another ring, but it looks like they'll get their second in a row. 
6/19/2013 1:28 AM
Posted by isack24 on 6/18/2013 10:19:00 PM (view original):
How was I supposed to understand the exact words Lebron James would say in your stupid hypothetical which was assuming facts that kmason didn't originally state?

This is probably the dumbest conversation I've ever been apart of, but it's tough to stop because I actually think you think you're making sense, and I don't want you to feel justified in thinking that if I stop. Such a tough decision...
Let it go.  I've fallen into this trap before, it's not worth it.  The same sex marriage thread is 200 pages now, largely because of similar arguments from bistiza...
6/19/2013 2:53 AM

The work ethic thread was a beauty too.  It's like talking to a brick wall.  No shades of gray in that guy's world, strictly black and white....about everything.  It's cool though, I guess, having finally met the most close-minded person in the history of mankind.  Once he makes up his mind, that's it, no chance of EVER convincing him otherwise, as has been proven in multiple threads now.  Want to see Hell freeze over?  Have him and Colonels get into a debate and see who blinks first.  Guaranteed when that moment finally arrives, it'll get awfully cold downstairs, and quickly too.  Hope you brought your mittens.

6/19/2013 3:18 AM
Ginobili was painful to watch. Just awful decisions all game, but the bench doesn't leave him many options. Popovich isn't going to put in youngsters Cory Joseph or De Colo, and Bonner can't really play small ball. Personally I'd shock the world and put Tracy McGrady as the starting SG, but I'm just some schlub on a couch that believes McGrady isn't completely washed up.
6/19/2013 7:26 AM
Posted by andrew5975 on 6/18/2013 5:10:00 PM (view original):


I also don't understand how winning the Celtic series would have prevented him from leaving if he wanted to. If his plan was to leave Cleveland, why would it matter if they won or lost that series? Are you saying he couldn't possibly justify leaving if the Cavs somehow won the title? There's no championship clause in NBA contracts.

of course he could have left cleveland after he won a title...he could have used any reason he wanted to leave cleveland...he could have said that he was going to miami because he loves snakes and alligators...but he wanted to use the publicly acceptable reason that he was going to chase a championship...and he could not use his predesigned excuse that he was leaving to chase a championship if he had just one where he was at...so he had to ensure that did not happen


You don't have to be from Cleveland to know that they were running things by LeBron. That's pretty much par for the course anyhow. Still doesn't negate the fact that they put a team around him that won 20 games after he left. You think he wouldn't have signed off on better moves?

lebron himself asked for mo williams and antawn jamison and shaquille oneal...it wasnt about him signing off on better moves...those are the guys that were attainable that lebron himself verbalized he wanted to play with

So since I completely obliterated your LeBron played incredibly passively and essentially threw the Boston series, you pretend I didn't say anything in regards to that? Lol.
6/19/2013 7:28 AM
Posted by emy1013 on 6/19/2013 12:52:00 AM (view original):
The Spurs blew their chance at a championship tonight.  They had that game won a couple of different times and let it slip away.  Up 5 with 28.2, miss a key free throw in there, fail to grab two rebounds that would have all but iced it, not to mention being up double digits heading into the period anyway.  Then in OT, they had a chance to take control and go up 4 but Parker split his free throw attempts, and Ginobili was nothing but a turnover machine all night.  Always been a Duncan fan and really wanted to see him get his ring for his thumb, but that was their best chance tonight.  After all the energy, blood, sweat, and tears (not to mention a vintage TD line),  I think their chances of stealing game 7 in Miami are just about nil.  Hate to see the crybabies from Miami (does ANYONE cry about getting fouled more than Dwyane Wade?) win another ring, but it looks like they'll get their second in a row. 
It's not just Wade, it's LeBron too. There were back to back plays late in the 4th where both Wade and LeBron stayed on the other end on the floor looking for a foul call, and both times the Spurs got layups before those two got up court. It makes no sense. If you don't get a call, staying down for a long time with your hands out pleading for a call isn't going to make the ref blow the whistle in retrospect.
6/19/2013 8:57 AM

I would love to see colonels v. bistiza battle to a forum death. Loser goes home.

The delusions of analytical thought would be epic.

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