Promised minutes question Topic

I think it would be realistic for a coach to stand up to a player and refuse to give in when he makes demands. The coach is in charge, not the players.  Hard work gets rewarded, and those who refuse to cooperate suffer the consequences.

But then there are some people who think players should be allowed to whine and ***** and moan and get whatever they want without any negative consequences from the coach.

7/12/2013 2:53 PM
Posted by llamanunts on 7/12/2013 2:49:00 PM (view original):
You guys essentially have that option already.  Just keep running your team the way you want and the player can get as unhappy about that as he wants.  Maybe you get annoyed enough with him to cut him.  Maybe he gets annoyed enough to transfer.
Yeah but that doesn't actually hurt the imaginary player's feelings and/or teach him a lesson. 
7/12/2013 3:16 PM
I'd like to see two HD options:

1. Something to help mitigate a huge WE drop (say, 20 or more points), such as explaining your decisions as a coach or something of that nature.

2. A way to get a player to STOP considering you during recruiting (because sometimes saying you'll use a redshirt doesn't work).

7/12/2013 3:23 PM
Posted by killbatman on 7/12/2013 3:16:00 PM (view original):
Posted by llamanunts on 7/12/2013 2:49:00 PM (view original):
You guys essentially have that option already.  Just keep running your team the way you want and the player can get as unhappy about that as he wants.  Maybe you get annoyed enough with him to cut him.  Maybe he gets annoyed enough to transfer.
Yeah but that doesn't actually hurt the imaginary player's feelings and/or teach him a lesson. 
There's where you're wrong.  If you look reeeeeeeally closely at the player's picture when he loses a WE point, you'll notice the tiniest tear in the corner of his left eye.  With each point drop after that, the tear becomes just the slightest bit larger.  If you can get a 100 WE player to go to zero, the drop will run down his cheek.  It's very satisfying.
7/12/2013 4:15 PM
Posted by bistiza on 7/12/2013 2:53:00 PM (view original):
I think it would be realistic for a coach to stand up to a player and refuse to give in when he makes demands. The coach is in charge, not the players.  Hard work gets rewarded, and those who refuse to cooperate suffer the consequences.

But then there are some people who think players should be allowed to whine and ***** and moan and get whatever they want without any negative consequences from the coach.

You CAN stand up and refuse to give the player what he wants.  Just don't play him.  There you go, you made your "stand".  You're in charge.  He refused to cooperate and now he's "suffering the consequences".  Damn, it ain't that difficult. 

So you stand up and show him who is in charge, he gets ****** about lack of playing time, and he decides to transfer.  Just like what happens in real life, all the time.  There's your answer, so please, PLEASE don't turn this into another Work Ethic thread.
7/12/2013 4:22 PM
Posted by jtt8355 on 7/12/2013 1:40:00 PM (view original):
Posted by paland on 7/11/2013 6:25:00 PM (view original):
the general rule is that he needs to play 80% of the promissed.  So he needs to AVERAGE 12 minutes or more. 
If you dont stand a chance at any tourney, then go ahead and play him for 30 minutes for one or three games to get him caught up.
i'm familiar with the "general rule" but i just got a complaint from a player averaging 25 mpg who was promised 30. i always thought 80% was the rule - e.g., not an estimate. was i wrong? do i have to get this kid 30 mpg??? (and i know - cue the "well, if you're going to promise x mpg, be prepared to give them" - please spare me)
80% works for many players. Some demand 90% though, and it looks like you got one. make sure that in the few days after the complaint he gets over 27 mpg (or at least whatever the total is of what he has now and how many more he is looking for depending on what you message says) AND that he doesn't foul out in less than that many minutes (or the game 'won't count' towards his average I guess...) and you'll be ok. 
7/12/2013 4:44 PM
No, No, No.  don't let it happen.  Bistiza flunked out of his last troll and erased all his postings.  Don't give him this attention especially on a topic he already trolled far too long
7/12/2013 4:57 PM
Posted by llamanunts on 7/12/2013 4:15:00 PM (view original):
Posted by killbatman on 7/12/2013 3:16:00 PM (view original):
Posted by llamanunts on 7/12/2013 2:49:00 PM (view original):
You guys essentially have that option already.  Just keep running your team the way you want and the player can get as unhappy about that as he wants.  Maybe you get annoyed enough with him to cut him.  Maybe he gets annoyed enough to transfer.
Yeah but that doesn't actually hurt the imaginary player's feelings and/or teach him a lesson. 
There's where you're wrong.  If you look reeeeeeeally closely at the player's picture when he loses a WE point, you'll notice the tiniest tear in the corner of his left eye.  With each point drop after that, the tear becomes just the slightest bit larger.  If you can get a 100 WE player to go to zero, the drop will run down his cheek.  It's very satisfying.
That's hilarious.  I actually typed out some stuff with my prior post (but deleted it) about making multiple player pictures, so I could see him crying after I told him to STFU about playing time.  Great minds think alike.

Also thought it would be funny to have another picture version where he's smoking a J after he fails to make grades for the semester.  Kinda similar to the little hidden gems you sometimes find in emails from players/coaches/etc.
7/12/2013 4:58 PM
You guys crack me up!! Well, just as a follow up on my original post, I got the guy over 12 mpg on the 15 mpg promise (80%) and I got a note this morning from him thanking me for keeping my word, and he gained all but 1 WE back.

Thanks for everyone's input on this!!
7/17/2013 11:32 AM
Posted by bistiza on 7/12/2013 2:15:00 PM (view original):
Big difference in this game between what the player "wants" and what the player was "promised".  I'm sure you just overlooked that not-so-subtle difference.

One of the things players want is what they are promised. Still, sometimes promises don't work out, and if a player is going to whine like a baby when that happens, maybe he should be treated like one.

To that end, it would be nice if WIS added a "punish player for his insubordination" option to HD. Or maybe not. It would take something away from the negative of not fulfilling promises. Still, it would be more realistic than players just getting away with telling a coach how to run his team - particularly when no promises were made.
the point which you totally missed was that you were dead wrong. thats all there is to it, emy was not making a statement about electronically simulated player psychology.

the simple facts are these: if you have a player WHO YOU DID NOT PROMISE, and he wants something he is not getting, his work ethic will decline, as you said, but he will rarely transfer, as you said. problem is, the OP was asking about a promise, not a non-promise driven complaint, so your information was incorrect.

in the case of a promise, if you don't meet your promises and the kid keeps complaining, he will almost always (or maybe even always) transfer.

im not sure why you have to try to twist words to make yourself right... "one of the things players want is what they are promised" - are you freaking kidding me?? this is a straight forward question with a straight forward answer, i dont know why you would try to turn it into anything else.

to a previous poster - 80% rule used to be the rule on promises, but that got changed. now the only guarantee is 100%. some players will tolerate 80%, some will tolerate 90%, some want it all (supposedly, i havent seen one myself). it varies. i do believe though, that when the OP says hitting 12mpg average stopped the guy complaining - that somewhat misses the point. i dont think the guy stopped because his season long minutes hit 80%, although i could be wrong. i believe its because after he complained, you made him happy. what we've been told is, if a guy complains, as long as you meet your promise completely from that moment on, you are safe (he wont transfer).

7/17/2013 1:52 PM (edited)
Posted by dacj501 on 7/12/2013 4:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jtt8355 on 7/12/2013 1:40:00 PM (view original):
Posted by paland on 7/11/2013 6:25:00 PM (view original):
the general rule is that he needs to play 80% of the promissed.  So he needs to AVERAGE 12 minutes or more. 
If you dont stand a chance at any tourney, then go ahead and play him for 30 minutes for one or three games to get him caught up.
i'm familiar with the "general rule" but i just got a complaint from a player averaging 25 mpg who was promised 30. i always thought 80% was the rule - e.g., not an estimate. was i wrong? do i have to get this kid 30 mpg??? (and i know - cue the "well, if you're going to promise x mpg, be prepared to give them" - please spare me)
80% works for many players. Some demand 90% though, and it looks like you got one. make sure that in the few days after the complaint he gets over 27 mpg (or at least whatever the total is of what he has now and how many more he is looking for depending on what you message says) AND that he doesn't foul out in less than that many minutes (or the game 'won't count' towards his average I guess...) and you'll be ok. 
i think the not fouling out screwing you in games a player played a lot issue was fixed, so now its counts.
7/17/2013 1:45 PM
oh, it actually says it in your ticket dac, he fixed that issue. so seble is confirming the entire mechanism there as well - its not about getting his season-long % to whatever the threshold is where he will complain. getting to 12mpg on a 15mpg promise on the season and the complaint going away, is just a coincidence in this case. its really about him getting what he was promised after the complaint was lodged.
7/17/2013 1:47 PM
Posted by bistiza on 7/11/2013 3:06:00 PM (view original):
In my experience his WE not only can drop more but WILL drop more unless you make changes. As for transferring, I know it happens but am told it's not a frequent thing.

Still, if you want to use him in the future, maybe you should give the player something he wants. After all, I'm told you can't expect any player (real or HD) to actually do what's best for the good of a team if it doesn't also benefit them personally.
in case its not clear bis, its the bit about the transferring not being frequent that is wrong. i make no comment about the validity of your opinions in the second part of this post.
7/17/2013 1:58 PM
Posted by bistiza on 7/12/2013 3:23:00 PM (view original):
I'd like to see two HD options:

1. Something to help mitigate a huge WE drop (say, 20 or more points), such as explaining your decisions as a coach or something of that nature.

2. A way to get a player to STOP considering you during recruiting (because sometimes saying you'll use a redshirt doesn't work).

im actually not against either of these though, and definitely am for #2. i think #1 would have to be a risk-reward to make it work... like clearly the player is feeling down, maybe your talking to him gives him more hope for the future, or maybe it crushes the hope he has, because he was holding out hope you didnt see things the way you did. now that he knows for sure, maybe he drops another 20 points.
7/17/2013 2:08 PM

^^^ I like this idea-- it could be something in their personality from evals, too: "he's a real team player" vs "he's selfish and wants to get his" or whatever. 

7/17/2013 3:19 PM
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