7/17/2013 8:34 PM
It would seem that Technique would be as important as Game Instinct for any position.. In fact, it's the player's GI that leads him to the proper Tech. Almost 30 years of coaching showed me that, on the field, it's difficult to separate GI and Tech. Then again, anyone can have their own definition of each.
7/17/2013 11:32 PM
I'm all for making a realistic game, but the more attributes are used to determine the outcome, the less cause and effect there will be.  That's a big issue with 2.0, nobody knows what's really important so nobody knows how to recruit towards it or exploit it.  

Now, if you expand the PBP, go for it.  But let us know if our OL was beat by a bull rush, a great swim technique, speed off the corner or a more athletic DL who he couldn't block.  Same with our RB, did he outrun someone, plough through a tackler, make an athletic move the defender couldn't match or use a stiffarm to beat the tackler.

If you're going to use everything, if there's no explanation of how a player made a play or was beat, you lose cause and effect and we're back to square one.
7/17/2013 11:56 PM
Posted by slid64er on 7/17/2013 11:32:00 PM (view original):
I'm all for making a realistic game, but the more attributes are used to determine the outcome, the less cause and effect there will be.  That's a big issue with 2.0, nobody knows what's really important so nobody knows how to recruit towards it or exploit it.  

Now, if you expand the PBP, go for it.  But let us know if our OL was beat by a bull rush, a great swim technique, speed off the corner or a more athletic DL who he couldn't block.  Same with our RB, did he outrun someone, plough through a tackler, make an athletic move the defender couldn't match or use a stiffarm to beat the tackler.

If you're going to use everything, if there's no explanation of how a player made a play or was beat, you lose cause and effect and we're back to square one.
+1 well put
7/18/2013 12:06 AM
I agree with slid64er. Keep the number of main attributes low and make them very important in recruiting and in the game engine instead of watering down lots of attributes. When you have too many attributes resulting in play results we do not know which were responsible for the end result of the play. I think one of the reasons alot of people liked 1.0 is that if you studied the game you knew what attributes were needed to win. One of the reasons I left GD is because nothing made sense.
7/18/2013 10:18 AM
Posted by slid64er on 7/17/2013 11:32:00 PM (view original):
I'm all for making a realistic game, but the more attributes are used to determine the outcome, the less cause and effect there will be.  That's a big issue with 2.0, nobody knows what's really important so nobody knows how to recruit towards it or exploit it.  

Now, if you expand the PBP, go for it.  But let us know if our OL was beat by a bull rush, a great swim technique, speed off the corner or a more athletic DL who he couldn't block.  Same with our RB, did he outrun someone, plough through a tackler, make an athletic move the defender couldn't match or use a stiffarm to beat the tackler.

If you're going to use everything, if there's no explanation of how a player made a play or was beat, you lose cause and effect and we're back to square one.
Completely agree
7/18/2013 11:45 AM
Posted by bhazlewood on 7/18/2013 10:18:00 AM (view original):
Posted by slid64er on 7/17/2013 11:32:00 PM (view original):
I'm all for making a realistic game, but the more attributes are used to determine the outcome, the less cause and effect there will be.  That's a big issue with 2.0, nobody knows what's really important so nobody knows how to recruit towards it or exploit it.  

Now, if you expand the PBP, go for it.  But let us know if our OL was beat by a bull rush, a great swim technique, speed off the corner or a more athletic DL who he couldn't block.  Same with our RB, did he outrun someone, plough through a tackler, make an athletic move the defender couldn't match or use a stiffarm to beat the tackler.

If you're going to use everything, if there's no explanation of how a player made a play or was beat, you lose cause and effect and we're back to square one.
Completely agree
I agree with this line of reasoning, but I also think that with the new player settings and depth charts that different roles would be able to use different attributes. A speed back may not need strength as much as your power back. Possession WR may need better hands, GI and ath than your deep threat who needs more speed and elus. Same with some designations of OL for pass (block + tech + GI) or run block (block + ath + speed). I agree the more you dilute the most important attributes the less they mean, but by having more possible main attributes to look at the better we can orient our teams. So fewer attributes per player decision is better, more combinations of attributes to create more individual types of players is also good.
7/18/2013 1:47 PM
If the game doesn't calculate results different, then the position roles are nothing more than window dressing.
7/18/2013 4:54 PM
the sim needs to decide if it wants to be a program sim a AD sim a head coach sim a coordinator sim or a position coach sim

a truly great sim would make you start at the bottom and work your way to the top and kick your tired *** out after 40 seasons

a truly great sim would if it really wanted to sim blocking and tackling make you coach blocking and tackling to start

otherwise whats the point of simming technique

a truly great sim would make you coach the O line the best you could for example and accept jobs FROM OTHER USERNAMES to move up

you get to the top of the heap when you make AD
7/18/2013 5:14 PM
the name of the sim would be College Coach
7/18/2013 5:17 PM
god its like giving away money telling you how to steal my sports and gaming budget
7/18/2013 5:17 PM
Posted by slid64er on 7/17/2013 11:32:00 PM (view original):
I'm all for making a realistic game, but the more attributes are used to determine the outcome, the less cause and effect there will be.  That's a big issue with 2.0, nobody knows what's really important so nobody knows how to recruit towards it or exploit it.  

Now, if you expand the PBP, go for it.  But let us know if our OL was beat by a bull rush, a great swim technique, speed off the corner or a more athletic DL who he couldn't block.  Same with our RB, did he outrun someone, plough through a tackler, make an athletic move the defender couldn't match or use a stiffarm to beat the tackler.

If you're going to use everything, if there's no explanation of how a player made a play or was beat, you lose cause and effect and we're back to square one.
The stats that I gave you are used situationally. Not every play will use every stat listed, it depends on the situations of the play. I am not using everything, just the attributes needed for the situation. I'm sorry that I'm being a bit vague, but I'm not sure how exact I'm allowed to be on it. Having said that, Slid64er, you are right about the PBP. Once I get the numbers to a point that we like, I'll go through and give more details on the PBP that would allow you to understand what is working and give you hints into what attributes helped with that. 





7/18/2013 9:54 PM
Will u be able to implement any of this for the upcoming season?
7/19/2013 12:51 AM
I set all of my 1st down plays where the TE was my ONLY target. Take a look at this...

1st & 10 from my own 25...Michael Wolfe takes the snap and drops back to pass. [Rush Defense - medium cover]
The defense is starting to get pressure on Wolfe. Campbell (Long) is covered at the PSU 23 (short).
Wolfe throws to Campbell (Padilla) at the PSU 33 (deep). Campbell pulls in the catch and is downed by Padilla. 9 yards on the play.

9 yards is "deep"?

next 1st down play...from my own 43 yard line...

Michael Wolfe takes the snap and drops back to pass. [Rush Defense - medium cover]
Wolfe throws to Campbell (Padilla, Patrick) at the PSU 41 (medium). Campbell pulls in the catch.
Campbell is tackled by Stephen Padilla at the UMR 49. 8 yards on the play.

Remember, the play started from my 43. My QB threw to my WR at my 41. 2 yds. behind the line of scrimmage, and that's a "medium" pass?

The most important part of this game was again, zero passes to the TE. It's obvious there are bugs in the passing game, especially when it's set to throw to the TE. I'm sure this is nothing that can't be fixed, but thought it should be brought up...


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