All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > What's up with the Developers?
8/6/2013 12:03 PM
Posted by wildcat98 on 8/6/2013 11:56:00 AM (view original):
Perhaps we can use this thread as a "Clearinghouse" for suggested improvements. It sounds like Gillispie has a lot of thoughts on that front, and I'm sure others do as well. I'm not quite ready to just give up on the game yet.
im nowhere near giving up on the concept - its such a good one - im only ready to give up on HD itself :(
8/6/2013 12:08 PM (edited)
Posted by wildcat98 on 8/6/2013 11:59:00 AM (view original):
Gillispie-

If you could change 3 things about the current HD, what would they be?
thats tough. i have so many more than 3, and the first things i'd change are fixes, not the more exciting stuff. if i ever finish my sim engine then that will serve as my answer :) been tough, got a 13 month old and a 2 month old, and we just moved, but ill get there eventually... got to get back to work, boring meeting that i shouldnt have even been in just wrapped up, but id be happy to pick this up later on.
8/6/2013 12:08 PM
Posted by gillispie1 on 8/6/2013 12:08:00 PM (view original):
Posted by wildcat98 on 8/6/2013 11:59:00 AM (view original):
Gillispie-

If you could change 3 things about the current HD, what would they be?
thats tough. i have so many more than 3, and the first things i'd change are fixes, not the more exciting stuff. if i ever finish my sim engine then that will serve as my answer :) been tough, got a 13 month old and a 2 month old, and we just moved, but ill get there eventually... got to get back to work, boring meeting that i shouldnt have even been in just wrapped up, but id be happy to pick this up later on.
I don't understand what you mean by "the first things I'd change are fixes, not the more exciting stuff."     
8/6/2013 12:35 PM (edited)
like, the first thing id want changed would be for seble to fix or at least revert d1 recruit generation, because it ran off so many coaches. probably the second thing id change, out of convenience, would be to make the first cycle of recruiting more than 2 hours, or let you put actions in 24 hours in advance, or something like that. assuming you are just talking the game, of course - the first thing id really change was the ownership, and second, the game admin... but im assuming thats outside the confines of the question :) anyway, i think the fixes i think id put in first, arent necessarily the most interesting things, thats all im saying. id probably change the d1 job situation third just to help bring life back to d1. but there are more fun changes id want to make to make the game genuinely richer, like, making assists a real part of the game! or allowing awesome big men to be more dominant. i would add a couple ratings to the game that i think are required to create a richer, more realistic experience, and then adding the functionality around those ratings... id make press an add on to man or zone, instead of its own set, or at least would make the existing press more realistic and would make the half court press more useful and realistic. id change tempo so that it... you know... makes some god damn sense!! id change caps to be soft not hard, id change teams baseline prestige to be fluid (albeit very gradually so), id change IQ so that a smart defensive player could play man or zone well, instead of being great at one and horrible at the other, which just makes no sense - this would hopefully introduce man/zone as a popular choice for team offense, adding significant strategy to game planning. id change the entire distribution system as it really just makes no sense, there is no realism to a whole host of things, for example - a point guard who can distribute really well, who can also score well, is a huge advantage in real life - you have to guard him hard and doing so often leaves others open. if a great distributing point guard cant really score, that limits his effectiveness - this does not exist at all in HD. there is a total disconnect in HD between how many shot the player takes and how many touches he has to have. if a player is going to shoot much, he needs to get the ball a lot and if he sucks at things like passing or has low IQ, you should pay a much higher premium on those shots (some of these effects exist in some form in HD but it seem artificial and unrealistic to me). there should be differences in long/medium/short rebounds, etc, etc. its really a hard question to answer because what id do from scratch is a lot different (while also being largely similar) to HD, but what id change given ownership of HD to stop the bleeding and enrich the game, is different -a complete engine rewrite might be in order, but that would happen much later, after smaller simpler changes were made. i dont like the way in d1 you have such an unrealistic advantage recruiting elite players if you are local - id change that, to create more competition between top schools. something like that, id do before an engine rewrite, to allow the half court offense to run more realistically. so its hard to answer that question, i suppose, but i think there is a really long list of things that could be done to make the game better.
8/6/2013 12:51 PM
Top Three Changes

1) I would make DI baseline prestige fluid or non existent. A team being run into the ground by a sim shouldn't get to have a higher prestige than a low - major team winning consistently. 

2) I would change up offensive and defensive sets. Its silly that press or fastbreak are all alone. You don't normally pay either of them in the half-court. They should be add-ons.   

3) Simplify distribution, and possibly change the way it works depending on your offensive set. I still have no idea how it works. I just sort of vaguely assign numbers based on how often I want them to shoot and then scale it back to 100ish and try to account for subs. 
8/6/2013 12:55 PM
I have boiled Gillispie's post down to a list of 14 basic items that he feels need fixed. I have to say, I would be pretty pumped if any or all of these issues (particularly #4 and #5, though) were to be addressed.
1. fix or at least revert d1 recruit generation, because it ran off so many coaches.
2. make the first cycle of recruiting more than 2 hours, or let you put actions in 24 hours in advance, or something like that.
3. change the d1 job situation third just to help bring life back to d1.
4. making assists a real part of the game!
5. allowing awesome big men to be more dominant.
6. add a couple ratings to the game that i think are required to create a richer, more realistic experience, and then adding the functionality around those ratings.
7. make press an add on to man or zone, instead of its own set, or at least would make the existing press more realistic and would make the half court press more useful and realistic.
8. change tempo so that it... you know... makes some god damn sense!!
9. change caps to be soft not hard
10. change teams baseline prestige to be fluid (albeit very gradually so)
11. change IQ so that a smart defensive player could play man or zone well, instead of being great at one and horrible at the other, which just makes no sense - this would hopefully introduce man/zone as a popular choice for team offense, adding significant strategy to game planning.
12. change the entire distribution system as it really just makes no sense, there is no realism to a whole host of things, for example - a point guard who can distribute really well, who can also score well, is a huge advantage in real life - you have to guard him hard and doing so often leaves others open. if a great distributing point guard cant really score, that limits his effectiveness - this does not exist at all in HD. there is a total disconnect in HD between how many shot the player takes and how many touches he has to have. if a player is going to shoot much, he needs to get the ball a lot and if he sucks at things like passing or has low IQ, you should pay a much higher premium on those shots (some of these effects exist in some form in HD but it seem artificial and unrealistic to me).
13. there should be differences in long/medium/short rebounds, etc, etc.
14. i dont like the way in d1 you have such an unrealistic advantage recruiting elite players if you are local - id change that, to create more competition between top schools.
8/6/2013 1:39 PM
Posted by gillispie1 on 8/6/2013 11:47:00 AM (view original):
it does have a ton of potential, i think this game appeals to such a larger user base, its really just pathetically mismanaged. i was HD's biggest fan for a long time but its tough to stay that way when it seems like all the owners do is try to run it into the ground.
really?   I had no idea you felt that way.
8/6/2013 2:33 PM (edited)
It is dumb that the first recruiting cycle is 2 hours and the rest are 3...just start the first one at 5PM ET...what's the big deal?

I personally find HD to be near-perfect.  I enjoy this game more than any other new(er) game at the moment, and my only real complaints are about seble's rash decision making in times of crisis and the inconsistency as far as the jobs process is concerned, mostly as it pertains to D1.  I think the game/engine runs well, recruiting is spot on (it's straight forward without being too simple), hell I'd probably buy HD if they ever made it a sole game available for sale on a PC.

I was around for and played the first seasons of both HD and GD...HD debuted in April 2004 I think...the signup period was in February I believe and all the Naismith D3 teams sold out in about an hour if I remember correctly, and GD debuted in August or September 2004?  I was much more pumped for GD, being a much bigger college football fan than college basketball, and having been relatively impressed with how HD played.  With that said, GD was such a let down...it's such a different/worse game than HD and I think had GD been more of a football version of HD as opposed to a rather/completely different concept, it would have been much more successful than it was/is today and I feel like I'd still play it.  I also think HD benefited from being one of the first, breakthrough college basketball games on/in any market/platform while GD was/would have had to compete with a solid EA Sports NCAA Football series, which I felt it never came close to living up to.  Maybe it was an unfair comparison on my part, but EA NCAA Football was hard to touch in those days.

8/6/2013 2:49 PM
I find it hard to judge HD as "near perfect." I've had far too many issues with illogical results, strange job decisions, etc. to believe that. I also think that Gillispie's list of 14 fixes would make the game WAY better than it is now. Overall, I think HD is about a C+/B- game right now. Above average, but no where near what it could be with different/more involved leadership.
8/6/2013 3:01 PM
I'm always looking for the best of everything, so if you can point out a better college basketball game than this, push button or text, I'd be more than happy/willing to try it.  I've played a couple other cbb simulation games in the past, and they couldn't hold a candle to HD, and are now out of business.  I came across another cbb simulation game today that just looked god-awful
8/6/2013 3:05 PM
That's my main problem with HD: there's no legit competition, so they don't change anything, no matter how many good players they alienate.
8/6/2013 4:14 PM
Posted by wildcat98 on 8/6/2013 3:05:00 PM (view original):
That's my main problem with HD: there's no legit competition, so they don't change anything, no matter how many good players they alienate.
i feel like competition would change everything, and would be great - outside of just forcing HD owners/devs to do better. really, in markets, it seems to me competition is totally different early and late in the marketplace, from a market maturity standpoint. early on, theres not even enough people who know about the market, who are bought into the market - its like competitors who spring up would obviously take some customers, but they help expand the market by increasing the visibility of the market, by growing the market itself. i always felt like if i had my own bball sim, every customer of mine is a potential customer for HD and visa versa - even though there is some initial loss, it would probably be better for HD to have a few competitors spring up. instead of 100% of a 5000 user market, maybe they'd have 25% of a 100,000 user market - which is clearly a win. i dont know if HD has the ability to grow the market on its own, to its full extent - they obviously could do more than they do - but if there were 3-4 firms, all sharing in advertising and such, i feel like it would be a lot easier to get people to be aware the online simulation space even exists.
8/6/2013 4:25 PM
Posted by wildcat98 on 8/6/2013 12:55:00 PM (view original):
I have boiled Gillispie's post down to a list of 14 basic items that he feels need fixed. I have to say, I would be pretty pumped if any or all of these issues (particularly #4 and #5, though) were to be addressed.
1. fix or at least revert d1 recruit generation, because it ran off so many coaches.
2. make the first cycle of recruiting more than 2 hours, or let you put actions in 24 hours in advance, or something like that.
3. change the d1 job situation third just to help bring life back to d1.
4. making assists a real part of the game!
5. allowing awesome big men to be more dominant.
6. add a couple ratings to the game that i think are required to create a richer, more realistic experience, and then adding the functionality around those ratings.
7. make press an add on to man or zone, instead of its own set, or at least would make the existing press more realistic and would make the half court press more useful and realistic.
8. change tempo so that it... you know... makes some god damn sense!!
9. change caps to be soft not hard
10. change teams baseline prestige to be fluid (albeit very gradually so)
11. change IQ so that a smart defensive player could play man or zone well, instead of being great at one and horrible at the other, which just makes no sense - this would hopefully introduce man/zone as a popular choice for team offense, adding significant strategy to game planning.
12. change the entire distribution system as it really just makes no sense, there is no realism to a whole host of things, for example - a point guard who can distribute really well, who can also score well, is a huge advantage in real life - you have to guard him hard and doing so often leaves others open. if a great distributing point guard cant really score, that limits his effectiveness - this does not exist at all in HD. there is a total disconnect in HD between how many shot the player takes and how many touches he has to have. if a player is going to shoot much, he needs to get the ball a lot and if he sucks at things like passing or has low IQ, you should pay a much higher premium on those shots (some of these effects exist in some form in HD but it seem artificial and unrealistic to me).
13. there should be differences in long/medium/short rebounds, etc, etc.
14. i dont like the way in d1 you have such an unrealistic advantage recruiting elite players if you are local - id change that, to create more competition between top schools.
#2, #3, #5, #10, #14 would literally take a few minutes each, if they work the way we think they work.  
#1 could take a few minutes if we are just talking about reverting, since the code was already written.  
#9 shouldn't be hard, less than an hour.  

The rest are significant changes, but given that the above could probably be done in < 1 hour combined, and really please most of the users, it is just shocking that they haven't been done.  
8/6/2013 4:51 PM
The thing is, I don't think Seble even visits these forums more than once a month or so. I don't know if the higher-ups have him doing multiple duties or what, but if not, I don't understand why he's not more engaged with the user base.
8/6/2013 8:02 PM
Posted by rgerkin on 8/6/2013 4:25:00 PM (view original):
Posted by wildcat98 on 8/6/2013 12:55:00 PM (view original):
I have boiled Gillispie's post down to a list of 14 basic items that he feels need fixed. I have to say, I would be pretty pumped if any or all of these issues (particularly #4 and #5, though) were to be addressed.
1. fix or at least revert d1 recruit generation, because it ran off so many coaches.
2. make the first cycle of recruiting more than 2 hours, or let you put actions in 24 hours in advance, or something like that.
3. change the d1 job situation third just to help bring life back to d1.
4. making assists a real part of the game!
5. allowing awesome big men to be more dominant.
6. add a couple ratings to the game that i think are required to create a richer, more realistic experience, and then adding the functionality around those ratings.
7. make press an add on to man or zone, instead of its own set, or at least would make the existing press more realistic and would make the half court press more useful and realistic.
8. change tempo so that it... you know... makes some god damn sense!!
9. change caps to be soft not hard
10. change teams baseline prestige to be fluid (albeit very gradually so)
11. change IQ so that a smart defensive player could play man or zone well, instead of being great at one and horrible at the other, which just makes no sense - this would hopefully introduce man/zone as a popular choice for team offense, adding significant strategy to game planning.
12. change the entire distribution system as it really just makes no sense, there is no realism to a whole host of things, for example - a point guard who can distribute really well, who can also score well, is a huge advantage in real life - you have to guard him hard and doing so often leaves others open. if a great distributing point guard cant really score, that limits his effectiveness - this does not exist at all in HD. there is a total disconnect in HD between how many shot the player takes and how many touches he has to have. if a player is going to shoot much, he needs to get the ball a lot and if he sucks at things like passing or has low IQ, you should pay a much higher premium on those shots (some of these effects exist in some form in HD but it seem artificial and unrealistic to me).
13. there should be differences in long/medium/short rebounds, etc, etc.
14. i dont like the way in d1 you have such an unrealistic advantage recruiting elite players if you are local - id change that, to create more competition between top schools.
#2, #3, #5, #10, #14 would literally take a few minutes each, if they work the way we think they work.  
#1 could take a few minutes if we are just talking about reverting, since the code was already written.  
#9 shouldn't be hard, less than an hour.  

The rest are significant changes, but given that the above could probably be done in < 1 hour combined, and really please most of the users, it is just shocking that they haven't been done.  
?I think you're way underestimating how long it would take to make changes.
For instance, #14, which you say should take a few minutes, would require first defining elite players, then rewriting the entire distane code specifically for those players, and coming up with new algoritums to go along with those players, then testing that code over and over again, then dealing with the 10,000 complaints from players at B level schools who wait patiently for a 5* to be 10 miles away who are now screwed and will never get another elite player. 
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