All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Mike Trout turned 22 yesterday.
8/8/2013 2:24 PM
Posted by arvidjosef on 8/8/2013 2:22:00 PM (view original):

Look at that '57 season

yea, man.  7 full seasons with OPS+ over 200.  SEVEN.
8/8/2013 2:27 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 8/8/2013 2:23:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/8/2013 2:13:00 PM (view original):
Kevin Maas, Shane Spencer and Joltin' Joe Charboneau are giggling at this thread over a beer.   
Yea, the difference of course is that Trout's been this good for 2 full seasons, rather than a couple months.  Remember the MVP talk last year?  Offensively, he's been better this year.

Also, and this has been part of my argument of pretty much ignoring defensive WAR - remember how he was one of the best in center last year?  Apparently he want from one of the best in baseball to below replacement level.  Yea, that makes sense.
The argument for DWAR has been "Yeah but it's the best we've got."   

When I'm hungry and the only thing sitting around is a **** sandwich, I just stay hungry.    Maybe that's how we should approach DWAR.
8/8/2013 2:32 PM (edited)
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/8/2013 2:22:00 PM (view original):

The same could  be said about the first post in this thread.

There's a long way between now and 9 of the best to ever play the game.

There is a long way between now and the Hall of Fame for Trout, that's true.

But Cameron's comparison is more valid than yours because he compares all hitters through their age 21 seasons. In that comparison, Trout is on top. If you compared all age 25 or age 26 seasons, Maas/Spencer/Charboneau wouldn't be anywhere near the top.
8/8/2013 2:31 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/8/2013 2:27:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 8/8/2013 2:23:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/8/2013 2:13:00 PM (view original):
Kevin Maas, Shane Spencer and Joltin' Joe Charboneau are giggling at this thread over a beer.   
Yea, the difference of course is that Trout's been this good for 2 full seasons, rather than a couple months.  Remember the MVP talk last year?  Offensively, he's been better this year.

Also, and this has been part of my argument of pretty much ignoring defensive WAR - remember how he was one of the best in center last year?  Apparently he want from one of the best in baseball to below replacement level.  Yea, that makes sense.
The argument for DWAR has been "Yeah but it's the best we've got."   

When I'm hungry and the only thing sitting around is a **** sandwich, I just stay hungry.    Maybe that's how we should approach DWAR.
It's not that it's a bad measurement, it's just that it takes a larger sample size get an accurate reading. I've read that you need around 3 seasons for defensive stats.

If a guy hit 350/420/600 over 150 plate appearances and then 220/310/340 over the next 150, you wouldn't say that BA/OBP/SLG are bad stats. You would say that 150 plate appearances aren't enough to get a true reading on the player's ability.
8/8/2013 2:44 PM
I don't think we know enough about dWAR to judge it accurately.  But there have been too many times where I see one thing and dWAR gives a different result.  I'm going to ignore it on a year to year basis.  For instance, Quintanilla has been great in the field for the Mets this year.  But dWAR gives him -4.4, which is complete bullshit.  There's no way a replacement level SS would play better than him.  So when someone uses dWAR as a reason to vote someone for MVP or whatever, I largely ignore it.
8/8/2013 2:49 PM
I believe someone used it as a reason to vote Trout over Cabrera for MVP last season.
8/8/2013 2:50 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 8/8/2013 2:45:00 PM (view original):
I don't think we know enough about dWAR to judge it accurately.  But there have been too many times where I see one thing and dWAR gives a different result.  I'm going to ignore it on a year to year basis.  For instance, Quintanilla has been great in the field for the Mets this year.  But dWAR gives him -4.4, which is complete bullshit.  There's no way a replacement level SS would play better than him.  So when someone uses dWAR as a reason to vote someone for MVP or whatever, I largely ignore it.
I use it as a fuzzy indicator. Watching games on TV, there's no way I can tell if a guy is good or just average at defense. We have to use something and UZR is the best we have.
8/8/2013 2:51 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/8/2013 2:49:00 PM (view original):
I believe someone used it as a reason to vote Trout over Cabrera for MVP last season.
Trout was better than Cabrera. Unless you thought Cabrera was a better defensive player than Trout last year. Did you?
8/8/2013 2:58 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/8/2013 2:49:00 PM (view original):
I believe someone used it as a reason to vote Trout over Cabrera for MVP last season.
It was also argued that if you ignore defense, Trout was better.  And it's well known Cabrera is pretty much a **** sandwich at 3B.  Your eyes see that.
8/8/2013 2:59 PM
Nah, no he wasn't. 

Perhaps if Trout played more games he would've matched Miggy
8/8/2013 3:19 PM
It was also argued that the Angels would have missed the playoffs without Trout. 

Oh, that's right, they missed them with him too!
8/8/2013 3:22 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/8/2013 3:19:00 PM (view original):
It was also argued that the Angels would have missed the playoffs without Trout. 

Oh, that's right, they missed them with him too!
Stop it.
8/8/2013 3:23 PM
DWAR is indisputable proof of Trout's excellence when it helps bad luck's point, but when it doesn't, well then you need 3 years to get an accurate value of defensive worth.
8/8/2013 3:27 PM
I see that someone else gets it too.
8/8/2013 3:28 PM
It was obvious that Trout was better defensively in CF than Miggy was at 3B.  
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