WAR question Topic

MikeT23
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Posted by burnsy483 on 8/21/2013 10:54:00 AM (view original):
You guys argue about the dumbest ****.  The point is, if 70 years ago some guy decided that the triple crown was OPS+, runs, and stolen bases, Trout wins the triple crown last year.  It's dumb.
This is an acceptable argument(well, except I don't think OPS+ existed in 1939).    Claiming the cycle or triple crown are arbitrary are not.   NO ONE claims a cycle is two doubles, a homer and a SB nor does anyone claim the triple crown is IBB, OPS and sac flies. 

It may very well have been arbitrary in 1939.  It is not today.  The Triple Crown is the Triple Crown.   Has been for 74 years.
8/21/2013 10:57 AM
MikeT23
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Posted by bad_luck on 8/21/2013 10:54:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/21/2013 10:49:00 AM (view original):
Meanings of words are arbitrary.   Right?
No, but some things, even old ones, are arbitrary. There isn't anything special about winning the triple crown other than the fact that we call it the triple crown.
The fact that it's only been accomplished 14 times, I think, doesn't make it "special" in baseball terms?
8/21/2013 10:58 AM
bad_luck
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It's rare. Great. Still an arbitrary distinction.
8/21/2013 11:01 AM
MikeT23
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Well, yeah, except "Triple Crown", and the categories that it's comprised of, has been accepted for 74 years(by your count).     No longer a personal whim.   It's an accepted "award" in baseball circles.    IOW, the opposite of "arbitrary".
8/21/2013 11:04 AM
bad_luck
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Posted by MikeT23 on 8/21/2013 11:04:00 AM (view original):
Well, yeah, except "Triple Crown", and the categories that it's comprised of, has been accepted for 74 years(by your count).     No longer a personal whim.   It's an accepted "award" in baseball circles.    IOW, the opposite of "arbitrary".
You're missing the point.

A guy was trying to argue for a player to win the MVP. So he made up an award based on three categories that he thought said player might lead the league in. The award was catchy, so it stuck around. It's rare and it uses RBI, so "traditionalists" have a bukaki-fest anytime someone does it, but there is no value added in accomplishing the award. Of the last four years, the season that Cabrera won the triple crown was his least valuable. It would be more valuable for a player to lead in BA/OBP/SLG.


8/21/2013 11:19 AM
jsakicno19
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Posted by bad_luck on 8/20/2013 6:51:00 PM (view original):
I think it's funny that, since 2010, Cabrera's worst year was the year he won the triple crown and the MVP.

He's clearly more valuable this year than he was last year but isn't (in all likelihood) going to win the triple crown. **** the triple crown, it's arbitrary. Like hitting for the cycle.
If eye had just won the "Triple-Crown" in MLB, ---& U were my agent,
representing me @ contract time, well ---->>> YOU ARE FIRED !!!

People here are truly trying 2 get U 2 cease using the word 'arbitrary'
as it applies 2 the game, & it's number groupings, which is what the
WAR numbers are; groupings...

The absolute ONLY place wherein MLB actually uses that very word
'arbitrary' is ONLY as it relates to umpire decisions... Period...

U are NO umpire... Nor are U an agent representing any aspect of
the game, wherein U are required 2 have your $h!t together...

U R merely a typist in this Forum, who skews words that very much
mis-represent this game of baseball... Pour the whole bag of 'salt'
on your breakfast 'Wheaties', before you actually pour on the motor
oil, then bake it on your truck radiator, & U still will have no anything
that nourishes, nor propels your truck down any road today...

Batting average (for any given season) is NOT a batting average that
is recognized by MLB, until the last game of the season... Arbitrary is
not selecting game #87, & saying that a batting average matters then
because it's convenient for your argument...

Arbitrary is the LAST word any agent would ever be caught saying, or
typing... MLB defines that word entirely differently, & makes far better
use of that word, than U could possibly ever do here...

Find another word, or finally declare that no one on this planet has any
ability or skill @ predicting the future...

The 'T-C' is what this game is about; achievements that go beyond the
"Babe"... Comparing it to the "cycle" only says MORE about U than that
actual subject that U think U are typing about...

Enuff said...
8/21/2013 11:49 AM
MikeT23
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Posted by bad_luck on 8/21/2013 11:19:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/21/2013 11:04:00 AM (view original):
Well, yeah, except "Triple Crown", and the categories that it's comprised of, has been accepted for 74 years(by your count).     No longer a personal whim.   It's an accepted "award" in baseball circles.    IOW, the opposite of "arbitrary".
You're missing the point.

A guy was trying to argue for a player to win the MVP. So he made up an award based on three categories that he thought said player might lead the league in. The award was catchy, so it stuck around. It's rare and it uses RBI, so "traditionalists" have a bukaki-fest anytime someone does it, but there is no value added in accomplishing the award. Of the last four years, the season that Cabrera won the triple crown was his least valuable. It would be more valuable for a player to lead in BA/OBP/SLG.


No, I'm not missing the point at all.   You misused a word and now you're doing your infamous shuck and jive in order to avoid saying "Yeah, I misused a word.   The Triple Crown is a **** poor way to determine value though."     The Triple Crown isn't even an award.   It's an achievement and it's not arbitrary.   It's been accomplished very few times and there is only way to achieve it.   It's been that way for 74 years(by your count), the term has been accepted by the baseball community for 74 years and it's not arbitrary. 

8/21/2013 12:17 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by MikeT23 on 8/21/2013 12:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/21/2013 11:19:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/21/2013 11:04:00 AM (view original):
Well, yeah, except "Triple Crown", and the categories that it's comprised of, has been accepted for 74 years(by your count).     No longer a personal whim.   It's an accepted "award" in baseball circles.    IOW, the opposite of "arbitrary".
You're missing the point.

A guy was trying to argue for a player to win the MVP. So he made up an award based on three categories that he thought said player might lead the league in. The award was catchy, so it stuck around. It's rare and it uses RBI, so "traditionalists" have a bukaki-fest anytime someone does it, but there is no value added in accomplishing the award. Of the last four years, the season that Cabrera won the triple crown was his least valuable. It would be more valuable for a player to lead in BA/OBP/SLG.


No, I'm not missing the point at all.   You misused a word and now you're doing your infamous shuck and jive in order to avoid saying "Yeah, I misused a word.   The Triple Crown is a **** poor way to determine value though."     The Triple Crown isn't even an award.   It's an achievement and it's not arbitrary.   It's been accomplished very few times and there is only way to achieve it.   It's been that way for 74 years(by your count), the term has been accepted by the baseball community for 74 years and it's not arbitrary. 

I didn't misuse anything. The triple crown is an arbitrary distinction.

There is no reason that HR, RBI, and BA need to be grouped together. It's arbitrary. If the writer had used runs scored instead of RBI, the feat would be ever more rare, happening only 4 times, but no more valuable.


8/21/2013 12:50 PM
MikeT23
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Words have meanings.   Learn them if you're going to use them.  
8/21/2013 12:53 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by MikeT23 on 8/21/2013 12:53:00 PM (view original):
Words have meanings.   Learn them if you're going to use them.  
Most have more than one meaning. Maybe you shouldn't insist that your definition is the only one that matters, bis.

Arbitrary:

3a : based on or determined by individual preference or convenience rather than by necessity or the intrinsic nature of something 
8/21/2013 12:56 PM
MikeT23
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The parameters for the Triple Crown was chosen, and accepted, a lifetime ago.    It is not arbitrary.   Even YOU refer to BA, HR, RBI as The Triple Crown.

The value YOU, or any individual, places on it is arbitrary.   

There's really nothing left to discuss. 
8/21/2013 12:58 PM
The Taint
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It's BL you're talking about. Never met a horse he couldn't beat to ******* death.
8/21/2013 1:08 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by MikeT23 on 8/21/2013 12:58:00 PM (view original):
The parameters for the Triple Crown was chosen, and accepted, a lifetime ago.    It is not arbitrary.   Even YOU refer to BA, HR, RBI as The Triple Crown.

The value YOU, or any individual, places on it is arbitrary.   

There's really nothing left to discuss. 
The triple crown still means what it means. No one is arguing that it doesn't, or that it isn't the accepted definition.

I think there is a massive lack of understanding here on your part.

When I say it's arbitrary, I mean that the writer who invented it grabbed three stats that fit his narrative and dubbed them the triple crown. There is no other reason they are grouped together. There is no need for them to be grouped together. They just are. Even though the distinction has been around for a long time, it's still arbitrary.
8/21/2013 1:13 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by The Taint on 8/21/2013 1:08:00 PM (view original):
It's BL you're talking about. Never met a horse he couldn't beat to ******* death.
I know.   But this isn't even something that's in question.    I figured, for once, he might say "Yeah, **** you.  You know what I meant."
8/21/2013 1:56 PM
MikeT23
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1.   I repeat, learn the meaning of words if you want to use them.   The Triple Crown is not arbitrary.   There is one way, and one way only, to achieve it.    It's pretty much the anti-arbitrary.

2.  I'll try a different route.

Quality start is a bullshit stat.   6 innings, 3 earned runs or less allowed.   Is 4.50 ERA quality?  Is that even below league average these days?   While I assign ZERO value to a QS, I'm not going to argue that 6 innings, 3 earned runs or less allowed isn't a quality start per the accepted standard or that it's just arbitrary numbers throw together.   It's been established and accepted in the baseball community.   It just means virtually nothing to me.  Much like FIP.  Except when arguing the virtues of Nolan Ryan.
8/21/2013 2:00 PM
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