All Forums > General Discussion > Non-Sports > Who would do a better job of running the USA?
10/9/2013 8:33 AM (edited)
Posted by tecwrg on 10/8/2013 8:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/8/2013 6:27:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 10/8/2013 6:21:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/8/2013 6:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by examinerebb on 10/8/2013 5:47:00 PM (view original):
I think the possibility exists, with a much larger likelihood than it did before.  I think that, if I were running the company, I would seriously consider it.  As for what someone other than me will decide to do, I can't tell you that.  We'll see.
So, in this hypothetical, you're running the company. Last year, without penalty, you could have dropped coverage for your employees but didn't. This year there is a penalty if you do. And now you're more likely to drop benefits? That makes no sense.

If you do, your good employees will leave. Most companies are not dropping benefits for their employees.

 
most companies are dropping benefits for their employees of some kind - if not healthcare then its something else.
If not healthcare it's irrelevant to this discussion.

Source on the healthcare drops?
UPS, for one, has dropped spousal coverage if the spouse can get healthcare coverage from their own employer.

That is a drop in healthcare benefits.  Because of the ACA.
As is the fact I was only able to fund my HSA up to $2500 this year for my second kid because of the ACA whereas I was able to go to $5000 for my 1st kid. This one specifically hit the middle class hardest.
10/9/2013 8:31 AM
Posted by examinerebb on 10/8/2013 7:43:00 PM (view original):
I'm saying I don't even consider doing it without the ACA.
I work with 1000s of small to extremely large business owners/ceos every year and exactly what you said here is common sentiment across the board.
10/9/2013 8:37 AM
Posted by moy23 on 10/9/2013 8:33:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 10/8/2013 8:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/8/2013 6:27:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 10/8/2013 6:21:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/8/2013 6:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by examinerebb on 10/8/2013 5:47:00 PM (view original):
I think the possibility exists, with a much larger likelihood than it did before.  I think that, if I were running the company, I would seriously consider it.  As for what someone other than me will decide to do, I can't tell you that.  We'll see.
So, in this hypothetical, you're running the company. Last year, without penalty, you could have dropped coverage for your employees but didn't. This year there is a penalty if you do. And now you're more likely to drop benefits? That makes no sense.

If you do, your good employees will leave. Most companies are not dropping benefits for their employees.

 
most companies are dropping benefits for their employees of some kind - if not healthcare then its something else.
If not healthcare it's irrelevant to this discussion.

Source on the healthcare drops?
UPS, for one, has dropped spousal coverage if the spouse can get healthcare coverage from their own employer.

That is a drop in healthcare benefits.  Because of the ACA.
As is the fact I was only able to fund my HSA up to $2500 this year for my second kid because of the ACA whereas I was able to go to $5000 for my 1st kid. This one specifically hit the middle class hardest.
Good point.  We had planned medical expenses (i.e. braces for my older son, a few other things) a couple of years ago that led us to go up to $5000 for our FSA that year.  If my younger son eventually needs braces, we'll be going well over $2500, so that excess will be coming out of after-tax, out-of-pocket money,

A friend of mine has a child who had a kidney transplant a couple of years ago, and has been coping with numerous related medical issues since.  His financial situation was on the lower end of middle class to begin with.  The reduction of his FSA/HSA from $5000 to $2500 has hit him very hard.

10/9/2013 8:47 AM
Real life experiences don't count. 

Besides, even if they did, all that extra money you are spending is helping to provide better healthcare for those who you are not yet supporting under medicare. 

It's a good thing...
10/9/2013 7:25 PM
Posted by moy23 on 10/9/2013 8:33:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 10/8/2013 8:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/8/2013 6:27:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 10/8/2013 6:21:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/8/2013 6:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by examinerebb on 10/8/2013 5:47:00 PM (view original):
I think the possibility exists, with a much larger likelihood than it did before.  I think that, if I were running the company, I would seriously consider it.  As for what someone other than me will decide to do, I can't tell you that.  We'll see.
So, in this hypothetical, you're running the company. Last year, without penalty, you could have dropped coverage for your employees but didn't. This year there is a penalty if you do. And now you're more likely to drop benefits? That makes no sense.

If you do, your good employees will leave. Most companies are not dropping benefits for their employees.

 
most companies are dropping benefits for their employees of some kind - if not healthcare then its something else.
If not healthcare it's irrelevant to this discussion.

Source on the healthcare drops?
UPS, for one, has dropped spousal coverage if the spouse can get healthcare coverage from their own employer.

That is a drop in healthcare benefits.  Because of the ACA.
As is the fact I was only able to fund my HSA up to $2500 this year for my second kid because of the ACA whereas I was able to go to $5000 for my 1st kid. This one specifically hit the middle class hardest.
Are you sure you aren't talking about an FSA???
10/9/2013 7:30 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 10/9/2013 8:37:00 AM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 10/9/2013 8:33:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 10/8/2013 8:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/8/2013 6:27:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 10/8/2013 6:21:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/8/2013 6:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by examinerebb on 10/8/2013 5:47:00 PM (view original):
I think the possibility exists, with a much larger likelihood than it did before.  I think that, if I were running the company, I would seriously consider it.  As for what someone other than me will decide to do, I can't tell you that.  We'll see.
So, in this hypothetical, you're running the company. Last year, without penalty, you could have dropped coverage for your employees but didn't. This year there is a penalty if you do. And now you're more likely to drop benefits? That makes no sense.

If you do, your good employees will leave. Most companies are not dropping benefits for their employees.

 
most companies are dropping benefits for their employees of some kind - if not healthcare then its something else.
If not healthcare it's irrelevant to this discussion.

Source on the healthcare drops?
UPS, for one, has dropped spousal coverage if the spouse can get healthcare coverage from their own employer.

That is a drop in healthcare benefits.  Because of the ACA.
As is the fact I was only able to fund my HSA up to $2500 this year for my second kid because of the ACA whereas I was able to go to $5000 for my 1st kid. This one specifically hit the middle class hardest.
Good point.  We had planned medical expenses (i.e. braces for my older son, a few other things) a couple of years ago that led us to go up to $5000 for our FSA that year.  If my younger son eventually needs braces, we'll be going well over $2500, so that excess will be coming out of after-tax, out-of-pocket money,

A friend of mine has a child who had a kidney transplant a couple of years ago, and has been coping with numerous related medical issues since.  His financial situation was on the lower end of middle class to begin with.  The reduction of his FSA/HSA from $5000 to $2500 has hit him very hard.

You realize that HSA =/= FSA?

The family cap for HSA contributions in 2014 is $6550.

 
10/9/2013 8:43 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 10/9/2013 7:25:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 10/9/2013 8:33:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 10/8/2013 8:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/8/2013 6:27:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 10/8/2013 6:21:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/8/2013 6:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by examinerebb on 10/8/2013 5:47:00 PM (view original):
I think the possibility exists, with a much larger likelihood than it did before.  I think that, if I were running the company, I would seriously consider it.  As for what someone other than me will decide to do, I can't tell you that.  We'll see.
So, in this hypothetical, you're running the company. Last year, without penalty, you could have dropped coverage for your employees but didn't. This year there is a penalty if you do. And now you're more likely to drop benefits? That makes no sense.

If you do, your good employees will leave. Most companies are not dropping benefits for their employees.

 
most companies are dropping benefits for their employees of some kind - if not healthcare then its something else.
If not healthcare it's irrelevant to this discussion.

Source on the healthcare drops?
UPS, for one, has dropped spousal coverage if the spouse can get healthcare coverage from their own employer.

That is a drop in healthcare benefits.  Because of the ACA.
As is the fact I was only able to fund my HSA up to $2500 this year for my second kid because of the ACA whereas I was able to go to $5000 for my 1st kid. This one specifically hit the middle class hardest.
Are you sure you aren't talking about an FSA???
Yep - FSA was reduced to $2500
10/9/2013 9:23 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 10/9/2013 7:30:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 10/9/2013 8:37:00 AM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 10/9/2013 8:33:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 10/8/2013 8:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/8/2013 6:27:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 10/8/2013 6:21:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/8/2013 6:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by examinerebb on 10/8/2013 5:47:00 PM (view original):
I think the possibility exists, with a much larger likelihood than it did before.  I think that, if I were running the company, I would seriously consider it.  As for what someone other than me will decide to do, I can't tell you that.  We'll see.
So, in this hypothetical, you're running the company. Last year, without penalty, you could have dropped coverage for your employees but didn't. This year there is a penalty if you do. And now you're more likely to drop benefits? That makes no sense.

If you do, your good employees will leave. Most companies are not dropping benefits for their employees.

 
most companies are dropping benefits for their employees of some kind - if not healthcare then its something else.
If not healthcare it's irrelevant to this discussion.

Source on the healthcare drops?
UPS, for one, has dropped spousal coverage if the spouse can get healthcare coverage from their own employer.

That is a drop in healthcare benefits.  Because of the ACA.
As is the fact I was only able to fund my HSA up to $2500 this year for my second kid because of the ACA whereas I was able to go to $5000 for my 1st kid. This one specifically hit the middle class hardest.
Good point.  We had planned medical expenses (i.e. braces for my older son, a few other things) a couple of years ago that led us to go up to $5000 for our FSA that year.  If my younger son eventually needs braces, we'll be going well over $2500, so that excess will be coming out of after-tax, out-of-pocket money,

A friend of mine has a child who had a kidney transplant a couple of years ago, and has been coping with numerous related medical issues since.  His financial situation was on the lower end of middle class to begin with.  The reduction of his FSA/HSA from $5000 to $2500 has hit him very hard.

You realize that HSA =/= FSA?

The family cap for HSA contributions in 2014 is $6550.

 
Yes, I know they are two different things.

I'm familiar with FSA because that's what I have.  I don't know the rules for HSA since I don't have one.  I assume my friend also has an FSA, since he has been affected by the $5000 --> $2500 reduction that Obamacare adversely hit him with.

I suppose I should tell him to STFU and suck it up, his situation isn't important because of all the unicorns and rainbows that everybody else is getting from the ACA.
10/9/2013 9:31 PM
The FSA cap doesn't seem like a big deal. It's not free money. It's just a small tax deduction that comes with use it or lose it risk.
10/9/2013 9:55 PM
Of course it doesn't seem like a big deal to you.

On the other hand, if roles were reversed and the ACA was an initiative of the right instead of the left, you no doubt would see it as a huge freakin' deal.
10/9/2013 10:32 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 10/9/2013 9:31:00 PM (view original):
The FSA cap doesn't seem like a big deal. It's not free money. It's just a small tax deduction that comes with use it or lose it risk.
its not a small deduction...

it comes off your taxable income like a 401k/403b does. It could be the difference of having your entire household income taxed at a higher (or lower) tax rate. Even if the additional $2500 doesn't lower your tax bracket it still easily saves middle class families ~$500 in taxes or better said it allows them to utilize that extra money to pay for their own health purposes rather than to fund wars, presidential vacations, and whatever else Washington wastes money on. I'll go a step further - Its a good planning tool for the middle class. Many middle class families have a hard time putting aside $ for child birth, medicine, procedures, etc and this was great way to fund an account systematically over the year to make sure these medical concerns can be met financially.

Honestly though - the only people screwed by this loss of deduction is the middle class... both the poor and the rich don't benefit much from it. It tells me a lot about you that you think this 'doesn't seem like a big deal'
10/9/2013 10:40 PM
Posted by moy23 on 10/9/2013 10:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/9/2013 9:31:00 PM (view original):
The FSA cap doesn't seem like a big deal. It's not free money. It's just a small tax deduction that comes with use it or lose it risk.
its not a small deduction...

it comes off your taxable income like a 401k/403b does. It could be the difference of having your entire household income taxed at a higher (or lower) tax rate. Even if the additional $2500 doesn't lower your tax bracket it still easily saves middle class families ~$500 in taxes or better said it allows them to utilize that extra money to pay for their own health purposes rather than to fund wars, presidential vacations, and whatever else Washington wastes money on. I'll go a step further - Its a good planning tool for the middle class. Many middle class families have a hard time putting aside $ for child birth, medicine, procedures, etc and this was great way to fund an account systematically over the year to make sure these medical concerns can be met financially.

Honestly though - the only people screwed by this loss of deduction is the middle class... both the poor and the rich don't benefit much from it. It tells me a lot about you that you think this 'doesn't seem like a big deal'
Do you not understand how marginal income tax rates work? Are you a Miket23 alias?

Even if you're at the highest income tax bracket, you're talking about a difference of a few hundred dollars. And that's assuming that you can't write off the medical expense already. Starting in 2013, some out of pocket medical expenses are tax deductible.
10/9/2013 10:41 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 10/9/2013 9:55:00 PM (view original):
Of course it doesn't seem like a big deal to you.

On the other hand, if roles were reversed and the ACA was an initiative of the right instead of the left, you no doubt would see it as a huge freakin' deal.
The tax deduction works out to a few hundred dollars for most people. If that's make or break, that medical expense is probably tax deductible.
10/9/2013 10:52 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 10/9/2013 10:41:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 10/9/2013 9:55:00 PM (view original):
Of course it doesn't seem like a big deal to you.

On the other hand, if roles were reversed and the ACA was an initiative of the right instead of the left, you no doubt would see it as a huge freakin' deal.
The tax deduction works out to a few hundred dollars for most people. If that's make or break, that medical expense is probably tax deductible.
It costs me $700 at 28% (filing jointly between $146-$223k) - am I correct? That's not just a 'small tax deduction' imo. Also without the FSA I'd have to have over $7500 in medical expenses (AND i'd be required to itemize them) before I could even take a medical expense deduction which is not the case with FSA's which come off gross income right away like a 401k does.



Married Filing Jointly or Qualifying Widow(er) Filing Status

[Tax Rate Schedule Y-1, Internal Revenue Code section 1(a)]
10% on taxable income from $0 to $17,850, plus
15% on taxable income over $17,850 to $72,500, plus
25% on taxable income over $72,500 to $146,400, plus
28% on taxable income over $146,400 to $223,050, plus
33% on taxable income over $223,050 to $398,350, plus
35% on taxable income over $398,350 to $450,000, plus
39.6% on taxable income over $450,000.
10/9/2013 10:59 PM
Please point out where $2500 moves your entire household income into a higher rate.

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All Forums > General Discussion > Non-Sports > Who would do a better job of running the USA?

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