It's only less broken in that if say we do get 3 or 4 quality unbeatens, we don't have to pick 2 of them for the title shot.  But otherwise, I'm right with you, but don't hold your breath on college football being designed with a "fans first" mentality.

My concern, which I expect will be confirmed, is that the teams with the best records from the "Power conferences" will get in.    One team from four of these 5, ACC, SEC, PAC12, BIG10 and BIG12, will be represented even if it's obvious to everyone that 2-3 teams from one conference are superior.   Using the scenario I presented earlier:

TAMU goes 11-1 with the lone loss being to Bama.
SC goes 12-1 with the lone loss being to Georgia.
Clemson goes 12-1 with the lone loss being to SC.
Bama goes 12-1 with the lone loss being to SC. 
FSU going 11-1 with the lone loss being to Clemson.

I could easily justify taking any of them over an unbeaten OSU or Louisville.

Texas A&M with 1 loss is not going to be ahead of Ohio State.  Now if A&M had some strong convincing non-con wins, I think it would be closer, but Rice, Sam Houston St., SMU, and UTEP just don't cut it.  And don't get me wrong, I get that the SEC is by far the best conference, but when all your wins are in conference and your conference has a lot of non-con losses (some of which are very high profile like Georgia to Clemson) you can't just rely on your conference.

And barely beating Ole Miss or beating Arkansas by just 12 aren't exactly ringing endorsements for your inclusion over a major conference unbeaten.

Who has OSU beat?

BTW, Clemson is ranked #3 right now.   Losing to them isn't exactly a "How the hell did that happen?"

OSU isn't one of the top 4 teams in the nation.    They're probably somewhere between 5 and 7.   In the SEC.

I have an easy solution for a case where 2 or 3 teams from one conference all "deserve" to make the 4 team playoff:

Cut all teams' non-conference games down from 4 to 1 to make room for each conference to have a 4 team conference playoff at the end & then the 4 best conference playoff winners make the national playoffs for the NATIONAL Championship, not the SEC Championship!

& if that system wouldn't work or isn't good enough... then here's the backup plan: Teams should win their conference to make the 4 team playoff or STFU.

Posted by MikeT23 on 10/17/2013 3:35:00 PM (view original):
Who has OSU beat?

You are making the argument that 11-1 Texas A&M would deserve to go ahead of 13-0 Ohio State.  11-1 Texas A&M that would have 2 maybe 3 quality wins i.e. Louisiana State, Missouri, and maybe Auburn (though I think they are going to fall pretty dramatically).  I'd take a 13-0 team with wins over Michigan, Wisconsin, Northwestern, and whomever the Big Ten title game opponent was over that particular 11-1 team.  It isn't like A&M played South Carolina or Georgia along with Missouri from the East.  It isn't like A&M has any quality non-con wins.  The mere fact that you are in the SEC doesn't mean you play a top of the line schedule.  Sure you will have a few good to great opponents, but there is this myth that everyone plays a gauntlet and that just isn't true.

You could at least listen to an argument for 12-1 Alabama or 12-1 South Carolina because they have much better schedules than A&M and much better wins than A&M, but I still can't see 13-0 Ohio State being jumped by a 1 loss team, even if that team is Alabama (though Alabama would have to lose before the SEC title game and then win that to really be in the discussion).

I'm actually making the argument of "Who is the better team?"     As I said, OSU is somewhere between the 5th and the 7th best SEC team.    They wouldn't even make HHH's convoluted conference playoffs if they were in the SEC. 

Anyway, if the objective is to get the 4 best teams in the playoffs, OSU has a lot of work to do to deserve a spot.   If the objective is to get the best team from the power conferences(or Notre Dame), I'm still not sure the B1G has a rep.    Oregon, Bama, Clemson/FSU and the B12 winner are all probably more deserving.

Posted by MikeT23 on 10/17/2013 5:04:00 PM (view original):
I'm actually making the argument of "Who is the better team?"     As I said, OSU is somewhere between the 5th and the 7th best SEC team.    They wouldn't even make HHH's convoluted conference playoffs if they were in the SEC. 

but how do you know that? Ohio State hasn't played any of those teams.  So then the schedules actually matter and in that it absolutely matters who A&M plays and beat and in that I would suggest that the 13-0 team with the wins I identified would be much more deserving than the 11-1 team with the wins that I identified.

13-0 Ohio State would easily finish ahead of and be more deserving of a top 4 spot than 11-1 A&M.

You're hanging your hat on a resume of Michigan, Wisconsin, and Northwestern?  Want to look at that again?  If those are all obvious quality wins, then I think that A+M would have more than 2.

You can't be objective here, so stop pretending that you are.   You yourself already admitted that the SEC is a far better conference, so since both teams did nothing in the non-con, how is a 1 loss team from the SEC "easily" less deserving than an undefeated OSU team?  A+M's top couple wins would be better than anything OSU has in that scenario, and the meat of their conference schedule is also tougher, though not necessarily anything to write home about.   And their loss would be to a team that no one in their right mind thinks OSU would be undefeated after playing.

Posted by AlCheez on 10/18/2013 7:20:00 AM (view original):
You're hanging your hat on a resume of Michigan, Wisconsin, and Northwestern?  Want to look at that again?  If those are all obvious quality wins, then I think that A+M would have more than 2.

You can't be objective here, so stop pretending that you are.   You yourself already admitted that the SEC is a far better conference, so since both teams did nothing in the non-con, how is a 1 loss team from the SEC "easily" less deserving than an undefeated OSU team?  A+M's top couple wins would be better than anything OSU has in that scenario, and the meat of their conference schedule is also tougher, though not necessarily anything to write home about.   And their loss would be to a team that no one in their right mind thinks OSU would be undefeated after playing.

LSU will likely be 9-3 in that scenario (Georgia, Bama, A&M).  Best wins would be Florida and TCU (the other 3 non-cons are UAB, Kent St., and Furman). 

Missou no idea what they will end up but right now Georgia is their only quality opponent (the 4 non-con games were Murray State, Toledo, Indiana, and Arkansas St.).  If Missou is unbeaten at the time of the A&M that would be a monster win for A&M either way the worst I see Missou right now is 9-3 (losses to SC, Florida, & A&M).  Good to great win depending on what Missou actually does.

Next best win on A&M's schedule would be Auburn.  Auburn has a bunch of tough games left (Bama, A&M, Georgia).  I reasonably see them at best 8-4.  Auburn's non-con victories are Washington St., Arkansas St., W. Carolina, and Florida Atlantic.


Not exactly a whole lot different than

Wisconsin who likely finishes 10-2, Michigan probable 9-3, Northwestern probable 8-4, and Nebraska or Michigan St. (probably 10-2 or 9-3 going into the game) in the Big Ten title game.


And yes I believe Ohio State would lose to Alabama though if the game was in Columbus I think it would be pretty darn close, so I'm not really holding that loss against A&M, but if you want them to jump an unbeaten champion from the Big Ten, they better darn well have played a gauntlet schedule and A&M did not do that.


I don't disagree much with Mike in this: if there are multiple unbeatens these teams would all be ahead of Ohio State this year: Alabama/Missouri, Oregon/UCLA, and Clemson/FSU (Baylor might be, and Loiusville, Fresno St., and N. Illinois would not be) I just disagree that 11-1 A&M would be.  That schedule just doesn't deserve that distinction. 

I notice you only listed records for OSU wins without any analysis behind those records like you did with A+M's.  Can't imagine there's a reason for that...

I think you disagree with me in that I don't think OSU is top 5 team in the nation.   I don't think they're a top 8 team.   As I've said several times, they're somewhere between 5-7 in the SEC(I take Bama, LSU, TAMU, SC definitely and FL, GA possibly over OSU).   Throw in the top from PAC12, ACC and B12 then OSU is struggling to stay in the top 10.   While I expect their only real "test" will be Michigan, I'm not sure Michigan, with their 3-4 point wins against the mighty Akron Zips and UCONN Huskies and loss to a depleted Penn State, is "test" material.     OSU did themselves no favors with their non-con.  You can get away with that when your conference is strong, like the B1G usually is, but that's not the case this season.

All that said, I think we know the objective of the playoffs.  To make money.   So, despite not being a top 10 team, OSU would get a bid if they were undefeated.  Big following.   But they aren't likely to be in my playoffs.

Posted by AlCheez on 10/18/2013 8:15:00 AM (view original):
I notice you only listed records for OSU wins without any analysis behind those records like you did with A+M's.  Can't imagine there's a reason for that...

My post was getting long so I abbreviated it.

Wisconsin will likely be 10-2, losses to OSU and ASU both on the road and within a TD and whose best win would be Northwestern, so not exactly a stellar schedule.

Northwestern, probably 8-4, losses to OSU and Wiscy (and probably 2 of 3 to UM, MSU, UN). No great wins, some ok wins.

Michigan probably 9-3 maybe 8-4, loss to PSU and to OSU with 3 ok games left (UN, NU, MSU).  also with a win over ND (who could do them a big favor by beating Stanford).

OSU will most likely face MSU or UN in the Big Ten title game.  Neither team has any great non-con wins and each has a non-con loss (MSU to ND and UN to UCLA).  Again a respectable win for OSU, but not a great win.

So yeah, Missouri and possibly LSU would be the best wins between OSU and A&M, but they aren't so much appreciably better and OSU would add a couple more of the "good" wins that A&M doesn't have in part because OSU gets the extra game.  Now if A&M wins out and somehow ends up in the SEC title game (I don't see Bama losing nonetheless losing twice which is what it would take) and then beats SC to win the SEC, then there is a clear discussion that would need to take place, but at 11-1, it just isn't going to happen.  Ohio State would and should finish ahead of A&M at that point.