All Forums > Gridiron Dynasty Football > Gridiron Dynasty Beta > Oriole - Why such big changes so late?
10/15/2013 12:12 PM (edited)
Why was the engine changed so much so late in the game?

It looks like talent was heavily deemphasized, especially in line play (running, sacks).  It looks like you are following in the footsteps of jconte and trying to shoehorn results into the game by artificially suppressing superior teams.

This is a huge change in gameplay so close to the release.  I hope you are able to revert back to the engine just prior to this change, which seemed to be on the right track for the first time. 


10/15/2013 1:52 PM
Slid64er, what are you using to determine this? 

I'm messing with a few of the numbers to make sure that the attributes matter more, and not the randomization of play calling. The most recent changes (which affected sacks and running) made the play call much less important. Prior to this change, a run play would yield twice as many yards if the other team was deemed to call a pass play. This is way too much for a control that the user doesn't have. 

As for attributes mattering, they matter now more than ever. In general terms I've been testing some numbers pretty thoroughly. The rushing numbers are a little low and I'll be playing with the standard deviation of rushing yards over the course of a season based on the attributes of the players, so you are likely to see those numbers increase with some more changes. 

The huge change is not actually a very big change from the code side, just adjusting numbers at this point. 

 
10/15/2013 4:51 PM
Running averages are way down.
Stuff percentages are way up, especially on outside runs.
Sacks are way down.

These are true whether you have the more talented team or not.  

It may be a small change in code, but it makes a big difference in whether or not your gameplanning and recruiting make a difference.  
10/15/2013 4:53 PM
Looks like you've made another change since this topic was started.

When do  you anticipate locking this down?
10/15/2013 6:30 PM
Posted by slid64er on 10/15/2013 4:51:00 PM (view original):
Running averages are way down.
Stuff percentages are way up, especially on outside runs.
Sacks are way down.

These are true whether you have the more talented team or not.  

It may be a small change in code, but it makes a big difference in whether or not your gameplanning and recruiting make a difference.  
WTH????  Things were working well and now this??????  Really????  Please, please, PLEASE stop the on-the-fly changes.
10/15/2013 6:41 PM
Hang on folks.

One of the biggest, legitimate gripes about the game engine has been that it all or nothing, depending on if you had the right (run/pass) defense set.  If you read what oriole did, he found and lowered a factor that accounted for such a big difference.  It may take some more time to refine the results, but I think it's a smart move in the right direction.

God knows I've been critical of some of the changes, and I still think the release is premature, but in this one particular case, let's tap the breaks and give the guy a chance to fine-tune effect.
10/15/2013 7:26 PM
If the release was not imminent, this would not be a big deal. 
10/15/2013 8:54 PM
Posted by bhazlewood on 10/15/2013 6:41:00 PM (view original):
Hang on folks.

One of the biggest, legitimate gripes about the game engine has been that it all or nothing, depending on if you had the right (run/pass) defense set.  If you read what oriole did, he found and lowered a factor that accounted for such a big difference.  It may take some more time to refine the results, but I think it's a smart move in the right direction.

God knows I've been critical of some of the changes, and I still think the release is premature, but in this one particular case, let's tap the breaks and give the guy a chance to fine-tune effect.
The all or nothing on defense is an issue.  Why not address that issue instead of trying to fix everything around it to disguise the flaw?  Why not just fix what needed to be fixed?

Most importantly, why, like noah mentions, are we making changes this late into beta with release imminent?  I thought we were on the right path before this, now I wonder.
10/15/2013 9:01 PM
He added a throttling effect to the superior team to keep the scores closer. Oriole admitted it in the devchat.  He also said that it was experimental.  If you check out your 1st quarter than you will get the talent differences that make sense.  and it appears to be set at point margin of 21 (shich would be too low). I went and tested all my opponents and ever 1st quarter was a blowout and then nothing for the next 3 quarters.  I agree that its crap.

BTW, I tested for tommorrows playoff game and the throttling is already gone.  Hopefully to stay.
10/15/2013 9:18 PM
Then again......."When winning by 21 play all your freshmen and sophomore as to not screw up your seniors averages.
10/15/2013 9:53 PM
Posted by tigerpark135 on 10/15/2013 9:01:00 PM (view original):
He added a throttling effect to the superior team to keep the scores closer. Oriole admitted it in the devchat.  He also said that it was experimental.  If you check out your 1st quarter than you will get the talent differences that make sense.  and it appears to be set at point margin of 21 (shich would be too low). I went and tested all my opponents and ever 1st quarter was a blowout and then nothing for the next 3 quarters.  I agree that its crap.

BTW, I tested for tommorrows playoff game and the throttling is already gone.  Hopefully to stay.
"Throttling" is the kind of BS tweak that jconte used to blow up the game.  If they have issues with the outcomes, don't fix the outcomes.  Don't shoehorn results into the game regardless of talent, gameplanning, etc.  Fix the engine so that it gives you the outcomes you find acceptable.  

I almost went and endorsed the game in the forum after the last update.  I'm glad I didn't.  
10/15/2013 9:59 PM
Posted by slid64er on 10/15/2013 9:53:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tigerpark135 on 10/15/2013 9:01:00 PM (view original):
He added a throttling effect to the superior team to keep the scores closer. Oriole admitted it in the devchat.  He also said that it was experimental.  If you check out your 1st quarter than you will get the talent differences that make sense.  and it appears to be set at point margin of 21 (shich would be too low). I went and tested all my opponents and ever 1st quarter was a blowout and then nothing for the next 3 quarters.  I agree that its crap.

BTW, I tested for tommorrows playoff game and the throttling is already gone.  Hopefully to stay.
"Throttling" is the kind of BS tweak that jconte used to blow up the game.  If they have issues with the outcomes, don't fix the outcomes.  Don't shoehorn results into the game regardless of talent, gameplanning, etc.  Fix the engine so that it gives you the outcomes you find acceptable.  

I almost went and endorsed the game in the forum after the last update.  I'm glad I didn't.  
The whole idea that made me believe that 3.0 would be worthwhile was that there would be no artificial constraints.  Throttling better teams to prop up the weak is exactly the reason so many left 2.0.  If you want a mercy rule, play little league baseball like all the other nine year olds.  
10/15/2013 10:23 PM
Posted by slid64er on 10/15/2013 8:54:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bhazlewood on 10/15/2013 6:41:00 PM (view original):
Hang on folks.

One of the biggest, legitimate gripes about the game engine has been that it all or nothing, depending on if you had the right (run/pass) defense set.  If you read what oriole did, he found and lowered a factor that accounted for such a big difference.  It may take some more time to refine the results, but I think it's a smart move in the right direction.

God knows I've been critical of some of the changes, and I still think the release is premature, but in this one particular case, let's tap the breaks and give the guy a chance to fine-tune effect.
The all or nothing on defense is an issue.  Why not address that issue instead of trying to fix everything around it to disguise the flaw?  Why not just fix what needed to be fixed?

Most importantly, why, like noah mentions, are we making changes this late into beta with release imminent?  I thought we were on the right path before this, now I wonder.
Apparently there was more going on than I had realized, I was unaware of the whole throttling thing.  Bad idea, really bad idea.

I'm all for making changes that fix a substantial problem,  I don't care whether the release is imminent or not.  Push back the release if you have to, but make the game right.

A bug ridden launch will be disastrous for GD at this point.  Minor bugs, ok, sure those are going to happen.  Major issues - like all or nothing pass/run and it having a huge impact on play results - will bury this game.
10/15/2013 11:07 PM
Like I said, it appears to be gone already.
10/16/2013 8:53 AM
To slider's point I'm seeing my super-stud RB (basically all 90's except GI) get stuffed about 25-30% of the time against sims.  I still win the games in blowouts, but with his ratings and a big OL advantage that number should be lower.
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All Forums > Gridiron Dynasty Football > Gridiron Dynasty Beta > Oriole - Why such big changes so late?

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