All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Petty Gripe and a request for a rule change!
12/12/2013 9:48 AM
I have noticed over the course of the past four or five seasons, in multiple D1 World's a growing trend that bugs the crap out of me, AND I hope other people as well.  This is not aimed at anyone specifically, just an observation developed over time.

Great Coaches are building up programs to A- to A+ status, and then leaving for lower elite programs  (ACC for ACC, or Big East lets say), but a team with C- to C team status.  I believe they are doing this to raise Conference RPI, or even boredom sets in and the Elite Program no longer satisfies them.

But to us, who have labored long and hard to build our Reputations to C+, but lesser resume's they are eliminating us from advancing further.  I know several Coaches who fall in this group, and we have discussed the slow burn that is building that Elites leave Elites, for Elites and we cannot advance because the A+ with resume, will beat a C+ with resume every time.

WIS, I propose a simple change in job application process.  If a Coach from an A+ program applies for a lower program (let's say C- for arguments sake), the program he leaves falls in reputation to one level above the program he goes to(or a C in this example).  If he drops back a level (D1 back to any D2 program) he also drops the team he leaves reputation.  There needs to be some policy to keep Elite Conferences from Cherry Picking Coaches by virtue of raising their low level programs above the Coaches pool looking to advance.

12/12/2013 10:27 AM
Provide a couple of examples...I haven't seen a single instance of this occur in any of the worlds I coach in.
12/12/2013 10:48 AM
I haven't seen this at all and it really makes no sense to leave an elite program just to raise conf RPI. There are many good reasons to leave a good program, the best of which might be baseline. But I haven't seen this, so I'd love some examples.
12/12/2013 10:56 AM
Sports Business News alockwood86 accepts head coaching position at Purdue. Wake Forest searching for replacement... 12/12 02:48 AM
  Smith World this morning.  A- program in the ACC, taking a C+ program in the Big 10.  The only verifiable example from a current season.  I have been watching this trend for several years.  You will just have to trust my observations because I have no "recorded" examples.

  I have no axes to grind, and no ill feelings towards alockwood86.  I say game the system for all it is worth.

However, I someday want to Coach a program in the "elite six" Conferences.  I am not saying I am any good at this, but would love a "CHANCE" to get beat by the best in one of the power six. 

12/12/2013 11:08 AM
Email just reminded me that am  "avoiding" playing a friend who Coaches an "elite" program in Smith World.  And I say to him, and any others it is not avoiding you "elite" team, as much as the avoiding your "elite" recruiting advantage.  MY C+ recruits will be better then my C- recruits were this season, but please don't tell me I can recruit the same people that your program can recruit.  My advantage only comes from my four year players versus your EE's!
12/12/2013 11:32 AM
ive seen plenty of coaches leave higher prestige programs for lower prestige programs, but i think you have the reasoning all wrong. leaving for another conference, as in your example, pretty much explicitly goes against what you are suggesting. if there were droves of coaching dropping down in the same conference to build up the conference, that would be a different story, but i cant think of a single person who has ever done that to lure in a coach to the old job and raise conference rpi. it could have happened a couple times but i really doubt this is a regular occurrence. more likely, coaches just got board of their old job or sick of the particular set of frustrations that went with that job. or they wanted to be in the other conference.
12/12/2013 11:38 AM
How do not understand how one could imagine that someone would leave one school for another in order to raise conference RPI.

There might be a temporary effect on conference RPI, but not enough to make anyone change schools for THAT reason.

Lets say someone is at a school we will call ACC1.  Great prestige and rpi.  Darn good roster.  You leave for ACC2 which has been a SIM for several seasons and is bad. 

In season 1, ACC2 gets somewhat better - saddled with some SIM recruits on the roster, but with management by a human coach and some good new recruits ACC2 improves.  On the other hand, ACC1 is probably left vacant because of its high prestige.  Simmy recruits a bunch of stiffs and fails to game plan.  ACC1 wins many fewer games

Does the improvement in ACC2 more than offset the decline at ACC1?  maybe.  Cant count on it.  Within a few seasons, ACC1 and ACC2 have swapped places.

Where is the boost to conference RPI that someone thinks is encouraging odd moves? 
12/12/2013 11:50 AM
i think he is suggesting someone will take that old ACC job because its so attractive, and thus, you add a coach. but im really not sure. its interesting the motivations people perceive behind actions though, isn't it? i feel like any long time d1 coach instantly assumes the coaches are leaving out of boredom or frustration, as we all have. but someone without the high d1 experience probably struggles to imagine wanting to give up a good job for the frustrating experience they are currently experiencing :) sadly, wvufan, its just as (and maybe more) frustrating and tedious at the higher prestige d1 schools :(
12/12/2013 12:38 PM
Yea, I can't really imagine many people leaving an A+ school to take over a C+ just to boost conference prestige, it really makes no sense. The more likely scenarios are that the A+ coach grew bored and wants the challenge of building up a school again, or the C+ is his actual dream job and this is the first time it has been open since he's been at that level.
12/12/2013 12:48 PM
I get all the boredom, and dream job situations.  I stated that.  Instead of beating somebody up for what I am imagining, the whole thrust of my post is the Higher team that they leave, should suffer a loss in reputation.

Larry Brown left Kansas, and took "his" reputation to UNC.  Bill Self that first season was not the Bill Self we see today in a real life example.    In WIS, we seek schools they don't recruit us to Coach (that would be great to get a message in your inbox that Duke wants to hire you, but that is for another day).

  If Coach A+ takes his reputation to C- for whatever reason, I have an opinion that "Team A+" has suffered a reputation loss for the School!  That is why I have the opinion that a reputation downgrade would be in line with the coaching change, for no matter what motives there may be!

12/12/2013 1:11 PM
ah, thats different - I thought you were saying that something manipulative was going on and I could not understand how you saw that

I have no opinion about whether that change should be made just for the sake of the change.
12/12/2013 1:24 PM
this already exists wvufan - albeit not to the extent you are looking for, i am thinking. and it doesnt work exactly the same way, but its similar. when you get to a school, the coach's resume has an impact of the prestige of the school. so for example, if you are at a C or so d1 school, and you move down to a B prestige d2 school, theres a good chance they jump to a B+. when a coach leaves an A+ d3 school and a new coach replaces them, the school usually drops to an a- or a. the drop occurs when the new coach comes, not when the old coach leaves - it sounds like you are wanting both. i think its an interesting idea, i always personally thought the coach should take a bit more with him when he leaves a school. not quite to the coach cal level where you take half the team with you :) but somewhere in between, the prestige of the coach being meaningful next to the prestige of the school, which is clearly the case in real life.
12/12/2013 1:36 PM
Now you all get it!!  Remember I am from WV, and it takes several attempts to explain things sometimes!  I also don't like the fact you must be a whole step better to even warrant a longshot status!  SL in Smith got lopsided by defections and I was thinking of moving teams within my conference just to balance divisions.  Since that has been impossible because I was never a full step better then even the worst SL teams (until this season) we have had half the conference play all Sim in conference play. 

Would love them to consider within your own conference to get "longshot" consideration at only half step (C-/C versus the C-/C+ as it now is).

12/12/2013 3:09 PM
the prestige of the school at which you coach has nothing to do with your ability to get other jobs. your resume is what matters - it just so happens if you are at a school a while, your resume and prestige will have a lot in common, with so many seasons working into both. so prestige tends to give you some idea where you might be able to go, but in actuality, prestige is not a factor at all.
12/12/2013 5:44 PM
At D1 does overall resume, or a a current number of seasons impact what jobs open?  
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All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Petty Gripe and a request for a rule change!

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