ESPN HOF ballot revealed. Topic

tecwrg
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CAN I ANSWER?

CAN I?  CAN I?  CAN I?
1/9/2014 10:33 AM
bad_luck
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Does it? I have no idea because you don't want to make your big reveal.

1/9/2014 10:33 AM
MikeT23
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Sure it does.   We've both made definitive statements on their HOF-worthiness.   I've said "No HOF for either" and you've touted one as one of the best of all-time while the other was a decent player who could buy a ticket to the HOF if he wanted to go.    There's virtually no difference using your precious WAR.   Insignificant difference.  
1/9/2014 10:35 AM
MikeT23
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tec, you can answer later.  BL knows who they are.   He's just made too many "This is fact!!!!!" statements to respond.   So he'll go into an "all day meeting" or play dumb until it goes away.
1/9/2014 10:39 AM
bad_luck
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Yeah, as I've said over and over again, WAR isn't a be all end all stat. So good job...agreeing...with me???
1/9/2014 10:40 AM
bad_luck
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I'm here. I'm happy to discuss the players when you tell me who they are.
1/9/2014 10:41 AM
byeags25
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Posted by burnsy483 on 1/9/2014 10:01:00 AM (view original):
Posted by byeags25 on 1/9/2014 10:01:00 AM (view original):
So you have 2 players, player A and player B.  Each play 20 seasons.  Every year, player A has about 1 WAR more than player B.  Every year,  you look at them and say player A is a little better, but not significantly.  Then, at the end of their careers, you look at them and say Player A was significantly better than player B because he had 20 more WAR than him over the course of their careers?
You look at the guy who went 7 for 21 over the course of a week and think he's not much better than the guy who went 6 for 21.  But over the course of a season, that might be 30 more hits.  It's a difference of .047 in BA.  Over the course of a 15 year career, it might be 450 hits.  Clearly one of them had a better career.
I see your point and I think anybody will say that a .333 hitter is better than a .286 hitter, but if you want to break it down by week, that's fine.  The 1 WAR per season breaks down to 0.03 WAR per week.  As BL said earlier, we should round that number down, so it becomes 0.  Then there is no difference between the 2 players.  When you break it down that granular, everything is going to be distorted, so I think we need to keep this to seasons and careers
1/9/2014 10:44 AM
MikeT23
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Posted by MikeT23 on 1/9/2014 9:58:00 AM (view original):
Way to bail on your indefensible statement.

I'll list a couple of players.
Player A:  16 seasons, 9053 PA, 62.7 oWAR
Player B:  23 seasons, 10359 PA, 68.4 oWAR

Would you believe that you've stated that one has no business in the HOF without a ticket and the other is a no doubt HOFer?  Numbers are from B_R.

Guess I'll keep this on the current page until you go away.

1/9/2014 10:48 AM
bad_luck
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I've answered it already. Yes, I would believe it. WAR isn't be all end all.

I'm not seeing the point you're trying (desperately, apparently) to make.

If it's, "WAR doesn't tell you everything." I agree. I've always agreed. Nothing new here.
1/9/2014 10:52 AM
MikeT23
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Would you say, based on the info you're looking at, that Player A and Player B are comparable?
1/9/2014 11:07 AM
burnsy483
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Figured out who the 2 guys are, and yes, you have to take into consideration more than just oWAR, or WAR, in general.  The cases for and against both players have been made ad nauseam.  
1/9/2014 11:09 AM
bad_luck
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Posted by MikeT23 on 1/9/2014 11:07:00 AM (view original):
Would you say, based on the info you're looking at, that Player A and Player B are comparable?
Since you already told me that they aren't, I'll say no.
1/9/2014 11:13 AM
MikeT23
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Posted by bad_luck on 1/9/2014 11:13:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/9/2014 11:07:00 AM (view original):
Would you say, based on the info you're looking at, that Player A and Player B are comparable?
Since you already told me that they aren't, I'll say no.
Why not?   What makes one so much better than the other?
1/9/2014 11:15 AM
bad_luck
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No idea, I don't know who they are.

But you're using oWAR and not WAR so you're giving both players positional adjustments without actually accounting for their defense. What are their WARs?

And, once again, WAR isn't everything.
1/9/2014 11:28 AM
MikeT23
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Both are listed as negatives in dWAR.    Of course, none of us trust dWAR anyway so that's not much of an issue.  

Do you have to know who they are?   I thought stats could tell you what you needed to know.  If you know who they are, you might be influenced by what you've seen or read.   Can't have that because you might have gone to a game as a child where one went 4-4 with 2 homers.   Too much noise.
1/9/2014 11:35 AM
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ESPN HOF ballot revealed. Topic
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