Posted by bad_luck on 1/6/2014 8:11:00 PM (view original):
Clearly we disagree on this. I see nothing wrong with calling someone out for doing something stupid, like voting for Morris and not Mussina. I don't think that we get very far by allowing idiots to decide things.

It's funny that the guy who insisted that Kenny Lofton (KENNY FREAKIN' LOFTON!!!) should be in a Hall of Fame discussion calls other people idiots for their baseball opinions.

Posted by bad_luck on 1/6/2014 7:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/6/2014 7:08:00 PM (view original):
Here, I'll explain it to you.   While I don't think it's possible to be "bullied" on the internet, some disagree. 

You make a statement and follow it with "and anyone who disagrees is obviously an idiot who doesn't understand baseball."

So the dissenting voice has to say "Do I really want to argue this point and be insulted the entire time?" because that's what's going to happen. 

And there you have it.

You mean like this post:

Quote post by MikeT23 on 11/30/2012 6:57:00 PM:

If you vote "yes" for Edgar Martinez and "no" for Bernie Williams, you need to turn in your baseball fan badge.

Both guys constantly cranked out .300 with 25 homers.  One played the field..  

TURN IT IN AT THE DOOR!!!!!

Exactly like that.   Would you like to quote the post where i said I didn't do the same thing from time to time?

Posted by bad_luck on 1/6/2014 8:11:00 PM (view original):
Clearly we disagree on this. I see nothing wrong with calling someone out for doing something stupid, like voting for Morris and not Mussina. I don't think that we get very far by allowing idiots to decide things.

You mean really important thing like the baseball hall of fame?

Yeah, we gotta upgrade the standards for letting someone have a vote.   God forbid they vote for one guy but not another similar guy.   Nuclear wars have started over less.

Posted by masterdebate on 1/6/2014 4:03:00 PM (view original):
He was saying if you say "if you don't vote for my guy you're an idiot" was strident. Just noise, meaning nothing. The Tigers reporter on after him had an interesting take on Morris. He wasn't voting for Morris, but offered that some may be voting for him based on the 91 Series game he threw vs Smoltz and that he won two World Series in his career, whereas Mussina is missing that from his resume. I don't think that's enough to push Morris over the hump myself, but I would hesitate to call people idiots who do believe that.

Morris won 3 WS

Posted by masterdebate on 1/6/2014 7:54:00 PM (view original):
Last time. Your position is "I'm right, Pedro Gomez disagrees with me and is therefore an idiot." If everyone held that anyone who disagreed with them is an idiot, we wouldn't get very far.

Are you MikeT's new mini-me? You're clearly arguing for the sake of argument in this thread. Whether or not you agree with how bad_luck phrases his disagreement, you have not offered one argument in support of Morris being better than Mussina. If you want to say "Morris is better because he won 3 rings and Mussina won none", then you may have an argument.

Bad_luck is clearly saying Mussina had a better career and it's baffling how someone can vote for Morris and not Mussina. And I agree. Does that make Gomez an idiot? Not necessarily, but it would be nice if he provided some insight as to how he came to how he came to see Morris as HOF worthy and Mussina not.

Posted by Jtpsops on 1/6/2014 11:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by masterdebate on 1/6/2014 7:54:00 PM (view original):
Last time. Your position is "I'm right, Pedro Gomez disagrees with me and is therefore an idiot." If everyone held that anyone who disagreed with them is an idiot, we wouldn't get very far.

Are you MikeT's new mini-me? You're clearly arguing for the sake of argument in this thread. Whether or not you agree with how bad_luck phrases his disagreement, you have not offered one argument in support of Morris being better than Mussina. If you want to say "Morris is better because he won 3 rings and Mussina won none", then you may have an argument.

Bad_luck is clearly saying Mussina had a better career and it's baffling how someone can vote for Morris and not Mussina. And I agree. Does that make Gomez an idiot? Not necessarily, but it would be nice if he provided some insight as to how he came to how he came to see Morris as HOF worthy and Mussina not.

Where are you getting that I'm supporting Morris over Mussina?

I'm taking the position that the position "my guy is better than your guy and you're an idiot if you don't agree with me" is an untenable position for discussion/debate. I started by quoting a guy who voted on the Hall of Fame (Sullivan) having that exact position. He even went so far as to say that that particular conversation is strident and doesn't further the actual conversation. I agree. Bad_luck disagrees.

You can hold Mussina is better than Morris. You can hold Morris is better than Mussina. But you should not hold "you're an idiot if you don't agree with me." It more or less renders the conversation moot, and if everyone held the position that anyone who disagreed with them was an idiot, well, nothing would ever get done.

Posted by Jtpsops on 1/6/2014 11:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by masterdebate on 1/6/2014 4:03:00 PM (view original):
He was saying if you say "if you don't vote for my guy you're an idiot" was strident. Just noise, meaning nothing. The Tigers reporter on after him had an interesting take on Morris. He wasn't voting for Morris, but offered that some may be voting for him based on the 91 Series game he threw vs Smoltz and that he won two World Series in his career, whereas Mussina is missing that from his resume. I don't think that's enough to push Morris over the hump myself, but I would hesitate to call people idiots who do believe that.

Morris won 3 WS

I guess I forgot him with the Blue Jays, given how well he pitched.... :P

Posted by masterdebate on 1/7/2014 3:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 1/6/2014 11:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by masterdebate on 1/6/2014 7:54:00 PM (view original):
Last time. Your position is "I'm right, Pedro Gomez disagrees with me and is therefore an idiot." If everyone held that anyone who disagreed with them is an idiot, we wouldn't get very far.

Are you MikeT's new mini-me? You're clearly arguing for the sake of argument in this thread. Whether or not you agree with how bad_luck phrases his disagreement, you have not offered one argument in support of Morris being better than Mussina. If you want to say "Morris is better because he won 3 rings and Mussina won none", then you may have an argument.

Bad_luck is clearly saying Mussina had a better career and it's baffling how someone can vote for Morris and not Mussina. And I agree. Does that make Gomez an idiot? Not necessarily, but it would be nice if he provided some insight as to how he came to how he came to see Morris as HOF worthy and Mussina not.

Where are you getting that I'm supporting Morris over Mussina?

I'm taking the position that the position "my guy is better than your guy and you're an idiot if you don't agree with me" is an untenable position for discussion/debate. I started by quoting a guy who voted on the Hall of Fame (Sullivan) having that exact position. He even went so far as to say that that particular conversation is strident and doesn't further the actual conversation. I agree. Bad_luck disagrees.

You can hold Mussina is better than Morris. You can hold Morris is better than Mussina. But you should not hold "you're an idiot if you don't agree with me." It more or less renders the conversation moot, and if everyone held the position that anyone who disagreed with them was an idiot, well, nothing would ever get done.

I don't buy the premise that all opinions are equally valid and no one is ever stupid.

A couple of years ago, Gomez cast the lone vote for Bill Mueller. Who knows what he's trying to do. Maybe it's just for attention. Just don't ask him to explain his vote.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/06/some-hall-voters-juke-and-dodge-but-sometimes-dumb-is-just-dumb/

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/25/pedro-gomez-embodies-the-intellectual-dishonesty-of-the-anti-peds-bloc-of-the-hall-of-fame-electorate/

Apparently Craig Calcettera (not bad_luck) drives the "Pedro Gomez is dumb" train.

Posted by bad_luck on 1/7/2014 9:24:00 AM (view original):

Posted by masterdebate on 1/7/2014 3:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 1/6/2014 11:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by masterdebate on 1/6/2014 7:54:00 PM (view original):
Last time. Your position is "I'm right, Pedro Gomez disagrees with me and is therefore an idiot." If everyone held that anyone who disagreed with them is an idiot, we wouldn't get very far.

Are you MikeT's new mini-me? You're clearly arguing for the sake of argument in this thread. Whether or not you agree with how bad_luck phrases his disagreement, you have not offered one argument in support of Morris being better than Mussina. If you want to say "Morris is better because he won 3 rings and Mussina won none", then you may have an argument.

Bad_luck is clearly saying Mussina had a better career and it's baffling how someone can vote for Morris and not Mussina. And I agree. Does that make Gomez an idiot? Not necessarily, but it would be nice if he provided some insight as to how he came to how he came to see Morris as HOF worthy and Mussina not.

Where are you getting that I'm supporting Morris over Mussina?

I'm taking the position that the position "my guy is better than your guy and you're an idiot if you don't agree with me" is an untenable position for discussion/debate. I started by quoting a guy who voted on the Hall of Fame (Sullivan) having that exact position. He even went so far as to say that that particular conversation is strident and doesn't further the actual conversation. I agree. Bad_luck disagrees.

You can hold Mussina is better than Morris. You can hold Morris is better than Mussina. But you should not hold "you're an idiot if you don't agree with me." It more or less renders the conversation moot, and if everyone held the position that anyone who disagreed with them was an idiot, well, nothing would ever get done.

I don't buy the premise that all opinions are equally valid and no one is ever stupid.

Do you buy the premise that sometimes your opinions are not valid and that you are sometimes stupid?

Everyone takes their turn being wrong. Even me and you.

Do you at least understand that "This is right and anyone who disagrees with me is an idiot" can be a discussion stopper?

Posted by MikeT23 on 1/7/2014 10:14:00 AM (view original):
Do you at least understand that "This is right and anyone who disagrees with me is an idiot" can be a discussion stopper?

That's kind of the point, right?

If I had a national forum and used it to say something like, "Arod is the greatest Yankee to ever play the game," you'd say something like "you're a ******* idiot and someone should take away your microphone so that we don't have to listen to your ridiculous **** anymore."

The validity of my statement wouldn't be something that would or should be discussed in a rational way because it wasn't rational to begin with.

The "point" is to stop discussion?    How long would you have your "national forum" if no one discussed anything in it?

So, universally, you are in favor of being able to shut down a debate when one side thinks the other side are idiots and retain the right to call them that?