LOGIC ?! Topic

hboms
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just happened to me in th ebanned league. but i had an unfavorable matchup - learning now that i should put some thought into playoff positioning if its close
2/28/2014 7:53 AM
felonius
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the unfavorable match-up comment has me thinking about another angle - what is the difference between that 60 win team with the bye and the 45 win team that knocks it out in the second round? can we really say the 60 win team is the 'better team'? in this sim isn't totally possible that the 60 win team got 10 lucky wins and the 45 win team got sim screwed into 10 extra losses?
2/28/2014 8:31 AM
hoopsdude
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Going off of felon's post: division alignment has a ton to do with record (obviously), and therefore plays a significant role in playoff seeding. So what if there is one really loaded divison, and one soft division? Right now in one of my leagues, I'm currently in 5th place of a stacked division, but am 6th in the conference. My record right now is 37-34, but if I was in the other division, it is likely I would have around 50 wins. If a team gets the 6 seed after playing in a stacked division and draws the 3 seed from a soft conference (not going to happen to me, every seed except 2 is from my division, and the 3 is 5-1 against me), wouldn't it be possible that the 6 could easily defeat, possibly even sweep the 3 seed?
2/28/2014 11:11 AM
ncmusician_7
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Posted by felonius on 2/27/2014 7:08:00 PM (view original):
I know it's anecdotal but how often have you heard one owner or another lament the fact that their 60+ win team with the first round bye got knocked out in the second round?
(1) regular season records can be misleading (as others have pointed out) (2) some people win titles on a consistent basis, that wouldn't be possible if outliers were determining the outcomes of a playoff series too often.
2/28/2014 5:56 PM
felonius
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tell that to seble/define too often

given the facts on the ground (stats as predictive, we're paying actual money) 'ever' is 'too often' in my book 
2/28/2014 9:31 PM (edited)
smokey57
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During the PO's it's no longer a situation where beating most the teams matters, it's a situation where just 1 team can bounce you. If you don't matchup well it's over. I'm in a league now where the 20th ranked team owns my division leader. We often expect our team to play at a certain level, when it's a matter of individual player matchups that effect the final result. If you look closely at the game (that you should'nt  have lost) you can often find the matchup(s) that were the reason for the loss. IRL you sometime lose to an inferior player..I like to call it "having a bad day". (lol)  Do the players in the sim have too many "bad dayz"...possibly. When we draft teams in a league where you know your div mates and someone in my div drafts a strong player, I'll often times draft a player I know historically mess's with said player on the sim. Lastly imo most of whats said can be filed under.."I DON"T LIKE LOSING". lmao, GL guy's

3/1/2014 10:31 AM
all3
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Losing is part of playing.  I think we all accept that.  What we don't accept is losing because of random, "possible-once-in-a-lifetime" type crap happening almost every day.  If anyone, anyone at all, honestly argues there is not far too much variant in the WIS NBA SIM, they deserve a nice white jacket.  Personally, what escalates my disdain for the current SIM, is the total disregard WIS has had for it's NBA SIM customers for the last few years.  A couple quick, easy changes (like we used to get, and the MLB SIM gets all the time) would get the game back to being so much better and so much more realistic.  
3/1/2014 12:42 PM
felonius
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Posted by smokey57 on 3/1/2014 10:31:00 AM (view original):

During the PO's it's no longer a situation where beating most the teams matters, it's a situation where just 1 team can bounce you. If you don't matchup well it's over. I'm in a league now where the 20th ranked team owns my division leader. We often expect our team to play at a certain level, when it's a matter of individual player matchups that effect the final result. If you look closely at the game (that you should'nt  have lost) you can often find the matchup(s) that were the reason for the loss. IRL you sometime lose to an inferior player..I like to call it "having a bad day". (lol)  Do the players in the sim have too many "bad dayz"...possibly. When we draft teams in a league where you know your div mates and someone in my div drafts a strong player, I'll often times draft a player I know historically mess's with said player on the sim. Lastly imo most of whats said can be filed under.."I DON"T LIKE LOSING". lmao, GL guy's

smoke adults are discussing a topic that time and again has proven to be over your head - go back to the little table in the corner and play with your crayons
3/1/2014 2:01 PM
badja
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So I just gave up 42 fta's.  Home playoff game against a team I was 2-1 against reg season.  Donyell fouled out in 18 minutes.  So...that's a good way for a favorite to lose a series.
3/1/2014 6:08 PM
felonius
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no you're just going all sour grapes because you lost - I'm sure your opponent averaged 42 ftas during the regular season and your team fouled a lot - I'm positive that's the case.... oh wait..... yeah, no
3/1/2014 6:31 PM
ncmusician_7
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Posted by badja on 3/1/2014 6:08:00 PM (view original):
So I just gave up 42 fta's.  Home playoff game against a team I was 2-1 against reg season.  Donyell fouled out in 18 minutes.  So...that's a good way for a favorite to lose a series.
U and ur opponent had identical regular season records (50-32).  This is not my definition of a clearly superior team.
3/1/2014 6:35 PM
badja
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Where to begin?   For one thing, he has a team with over 2300 fouls...so there's that.  Elden Campbell not even registering a single PF on the road against a team with 2800 fta's.  Paul Millsap equalling Karl Malone, Moncreif and Penny in ft's and doing it in 16 minutes..  Yeah that's all on the up and up.

I'm not about sour grapes either.  I have won 2 chips in recent months so I know what I'm doing.  I expect to win the series, but this is an example of a sim that is ...dumb.

2322 fouls

PLAYER MIN FGM/FGA 3PM/3PA FTM/FTA OREB REB AST BLK STL TO PF TP
08-09 Dwyane Wade* 38 12/28 2/4 2/2 0 3 7 1 1 1 0 28
94-95 Scottie Pippen* 37 6/17 4/10 7/8 1 11 10 0 2 5 3 23
93-94 Shawn Kemp* 33 5/10 0/0 7/7 5 12 1 2 1 2 3 17
95-96 Elden Campbell 30 5/8 0/0 3/4 3 7 3 2 1 3 0 13
79-80 Tree Rollins* 28 3/5 0/0 3/4 2 10 2 3 0 0 1 9
12-13 Larry Sanders* 25 2/5 0/0 3/4 0 7 1 7 0 1 2 7
06-07 Paul Millsap 16 4/7 0/0 3/9 2 5 0 1 0 1 3 11
71-72 Art Williams 16 3/3 0/0 0/0 0 0 7 0 1 0 4 6
06-07 Tyrus Thomas 12 3/5 0/0 4/4 1 4 1 1 1 0 0 10
87-88 Carey Scurry 5 0/0 0/0 0/0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0
TOTALS   43/88 6/14 32/42 14 59 32 17 7 13 17 124
  48.9% 42.9% 76.2%  
The Not-So-Top 10

PLAYER MIN FGM/FGA 3PM/3PA FTM/FTA OREB REB AST BLK STL TO PF TP
96-97 Karl Malone* 42 13/24 0/0 2/2 0 7 7 2 1 3 3 28
81-82 Sidney Moncrief* 39 11/18 0/0 7/7 2 4 3 0 1 0 2 29
95-96 Anfernee Hardaway* 38 6/19 1/4 0/0 1 3 13 1 2 4 3 13
08-09 Troy Murphy* 32 5/11 0/2 3/5 5 10 5 1 0 1 2 13
10-11 Ryan Anderson 26 2/11 2/7 1/2 2 8 0 1 0 0 2 7
87-88 Roy Tarpley 22 2/4 0/0 1/2 1 9 1 0 0 1 5 5
90-91 Jim Les 19 2/3 1/2 3/3 0 1 3 0 1 1 1 8
03-04 Donyell Marshall* 18 4/7 3/5 0/0 0 3 0 1 0 2 6 11
99-00 Earl Boykins 4 0/2 0/0 1/2 1 2 0 0 0 0 0 1
TOTALS   45/99 7/20 18/23 12 47 32 6 5 12 24 115
  45.5% 35.0% 78.3%  
 

3/1/2014 6:48 PM (edited)
felonius
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badja calm down, I was making fun of smokey - how are you supposed to keep up with the jokes if you're not reading the whole thread?
3/1/2014 8:41 PM
ashamael
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You also got out shot from the field & gave up 12 more boards.  That's not a high Mailman draw-rate season either.  yes, the discrepency is ridiculous, but what is probably even more ridiculous is that out of all of those guys shooting 42 free throws, Wade only shot 2 of them.  And 08-09 Wade has a really high draw rate.
3/1/2014 8:47 PM
badja
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Posted by felonius on 3/1/2014 8:41:00 PM (view original):
badja calm down, I was making fun of smokey - how are you supposed to keep up with the jokes if you're not reading the whole thread?
Felon, I know you were joking man!  I am so used to this stuff that I am not at all surprised.  But to me it is an example of the sim being totally random when it should not be totally random.  Moncreif, Mailman and Penny take over 1800 ft's.  For them to take a grand total of 9 against that team ...just should not happen, ever.

and again, the reason I got outrebounded is largely due to Donyell fouling out in 18 mins.

3/1/2014 9:48 PM
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