Cool.  I got the poll question right!!!

Does anyone think the $25/season price tag is a bit much if the game isn't ever being updated?

Posted by smoelheim on 3/4/2014 11:39:00 AM (view original):
Maybe they're putting in a major update today, and thats why the PM cycle is late.     

The pm cycle is late because everyone at WiS had to drop everything and monitor the results of this super important HBD poll.

Posted by pjfoster13 on 3/4/2014 11:21:00 AM (view original):

Posted by deathinahole on 3/4/2014 9:36:00 AM (view original):
How about an option for "who cares but people that need to be coddled and stroked"?

The framework of the game is a outdated, obviously the aesthetic stuff like the list of ballparks is outdated but the statistical model itself that the engine runs off of is outdated esp when it comes to how the ratings relate to the statistics they produce- stuff like K/9 rates for pitchers, HR rates, etc.  Nowadays virtually every ML pitcher irl especially bullpen guys have K/9 rates better than 9.0, whereas on this game there's only a handful of guys in every world that touch 9.0.  That's just one example.  There are many more; the game does not mirror actual basebal statistics like it did in 2005.  The engine is drastically outdated and probably needs a major, total overhaul imo. 

But therein lies the problem with outdated software, the longer you wait the harder it becomes to update.  Yearly-updated games like Madden are popular because something is always different, but because they have tons of devs and because they're constantly updating, they sell more units and they have a bigger budget and it's easier for them.  WIS is the equivalent to running Madden 2004 and thinking it's still cool.  For WIS, there ought to be one BIG update 1x per year and a bunch of little updates sprinkled in to fix bugs.  But WIS simply doesn't have the developing capabilities for this branch of the game.  Fox sports does not care, they are gravy-training on WIS's business model that continues to churn out money without producing any new content. 

So it's not that we need to be coddled and stroked it's just basically a huge rip-off that we as customers don't get new updates even though we continue to pay new money into the system.  If we paid a one-time entry fee for a lifetime of gameplay (like for an old console game) then fine, don't ever update the software, that would be coddling and stroking.  However, imo the WIS business model is bs and rips its users off big time but its users are so invested / addicted that people don't quit, it's actually kind of sad.

If that indeed is the WIS business model, then it should be admired.  Maximizing profit while minimizing expenses.

And nobody is being ripped off.  You're paying for a product (a season of HBD) and you're getting it.  There's no implied promise of continual improvement.

Posted by frymaster99 on 3/4/2014 11:46:00 AM (view original):
Does anyone think the $25/season price tag is a bit much if the game isn't ever being updated?

To the best of my knowledge, nobody is being to forced to spend money on the product.  So $25 a season is being spent willingly by everybody here.

Posted by pjfoster13 on 3/4/2014 11:21:00 AM (view original):

Posted by deathinahole on 3/4/2014 9:36:00 AM (view original):
How about an option for "who cares but people that need to be coddled and stroked"?

The framework of the game is a outdated, obviously the aesthetic stuff like the list of ballparks is outdated but the statistical model itself that the engine runs off of is outdated esp when it comes to how the ratings relate to the statistics they produce- stuff like K/9 rates for pitchers, HR rates, etc.  Nowadays virtually every ML pitcher irl especially bullpen guys have K/9 rates better than 9.0, whereas on this game there's only a handful of guys in every world that touch 9.0.  That's just one example.  There are many more; the game does not mirror actual basebal statistics like it did in 2005.  The engine is drastically outdated and probably needs a major, total overhaul imo. 

But therein lies the problem with outdated software, the longer you wait the harder it becomes to update.  Yearly-updated games like Madden are popular because something is always different, but because they have tons of devs and because they're constantly updating, they sell more units and they have a bigger budget and it's easier for them.  WIS is the equivalent to running Madden 2004 and thinking it's still cool.  For WIS, there ought to be one BIG update 1x per year and a bunch of little updates sprinkled in to fix bugs.  But WIS simply doesn't have the developing capabilities for this branch of the game.  Fox sports does not care, they are gravy-training on WIS's business model that continues to churn out money without producing any new content. 

So it's not that we need to be coddled and stroked it's just basically a huge rip-off that we as customers don't get new updates even though we continue to pay new money into the system.  If we paid a one-time entry fee for a lifetime of gameplay (like for an old console game) then fine, don't ever update the software, that would be coddling and stroking.  However, imo the WIS business model is bs and rips its users off big time but its users are so invested / addicted that people don't quit, it's actually kind of sad.

Yes, you need to be coddled and stroked.
No, it's not a huge rip off, it's the same price as 2006 when it was first introduced, and less now that you are getting a discount on near every season.

It doesn't have graphics. It doesn't have real life players that need to be refreshed every season. You are playing against the talent of 31 other players using the same dataset.

The enjoyment is in the eye of the beholder, and if the beholder needs to be coddled and stroked with near meaningless adjustments to the game, he or she won't enjoy it.

o

Posted by tecwrg on 3/4/2014 11:57:00 AM (view original):

Posted by frymaster99 on 3/4/2014 11:46:00 AM (view original):
Does anyone think the $25/season price tag is a bit much if the game isn't ever being updated?

To the best of my knowledge, nobody is being to forced to spend money on the product.  So $25 a season is being spent willingly by everybody here.

Maybe I should have phrased it better...do you think, even with the introductory first-season price, that more "new" players would stick around longer if the price wasn't $25 a season? My thought process being that rookies would (IMO) tend to want some bells and whistles and shiny things whereas guys like you and Mike and others can appreciate the game as is.

You can't try to make the game all things for all people.  "Bells, whistles and shiny things" tries to cater to the idea that you can.

This game is not going to be for everybody.  There's a lot of depth to the game.  Some folks embrace that and stick around for the long term.  Others are overwhelmed and quickly bail.  Others fall somewhere in between.

Posted by MikeT23 on 3/4/2014 10:16:00 AM (view original):
I sort of think the medical bug counteracts the demotion penalty.    One gives you points for manipulating the DL while the other takes points away for trying to manipulate the 25 man roster.    So it doesn't bother me.

The HOF "show player at the position he played the most" is one of those simple fixes, at least I think it's simple, I mentioned.    Allowing owners to pick logos/color schemes seems easy enough.   Different colored notes.   A few more stadiums.   All of this seems easy to implement and the user base would poop their pants in excitement if they were implemented.

Can confirm: Would poop.

Posted by frymaster99 on 3/4/2014 12:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 3/4/2014 11:57:00 AM (view original):

Posted by frymaster99 on 3/4/2014 11:46:00 AM (view original):
Does anyone think the $25/season price tag is a bit much if the game isn't ever being updated?

To the best of my knowledge, nobody is being to forced to spend money on the product.  So $25 a season is being spent willingly by everybody here.

Maybe I should have phrased it better...do you think, even with the introductory first-season price, that more "new" players would stick around longer if the price wasn't $25 a season? My thought process being that rookies would (IMO) tend to want some bells and whistles and shiny things whereas guys like you and Mike and others can appreciate the game as is.

I think everyone would like a "cheaper" hobby(assuming playing simgames is a hobby). 

I've argued this before but there is a price point that would lessen the game for many users.   If I drop $10 on a meal and it sucks, I don't eat.   I don't gripe, I don't complain, I just leave it on the plate and pay the bill.   After all, it was $10.   WTF was I expecting?   Make it $100 and it sucks, I tell anyone who'll listen.  I want to be comped.  Or given a free drink.  Something.   If it's good, I eat it without a word.

Apply that to HBD.    $10 per season.    I play, halfway thru I don't like it.   I just say "Well, that was $10 gone" and go about my business leaving an unmanned team.   I pay $25 and I'm going to try to learn the game.   If I learn the game a little, maybe I play another season.    IMO, I think the introductory price is a double-edged sword.   It brings in new people but it's because they say "What's $10?"   And, if they don't like it, they abandon the team.

Posted by frymaster99 on 3/4/2014 11:46:00 AM (view original):
Does anyone think the $25/season price tag is a bit much if the game isn't ever being updated?

Moot point.   You haven't played ANY game here.

Unless you're an alias....

Posted by frymaster99 on 3/4/2014 11:46:00 AM (view original):
Does anyone think the $25/season price tag is a bit much if the game isn't ever being updated?

You can pay $20/season if you buy a 10 pack.. You also get $$ back for winning and for losing... I think the price is acceptable..  

My son is in his junior year of a CompSci degree, and I'm pretty confident he could handle several of the cosmetic/minor changes that have been proposed.  And he'd probably do it for a pizza or a couple of double-doubles.

To recap:

WifS could throw out a few cosmetic changes and threads like these never happen.
Major updates have killed other dynasty games.   I expect the same would happen to HBD.
travisg would poop his pants if WifS dropped a bell and whistle update.