Important HBD poll! Please participate!!!!!!!!!!1 Topic

Or, to shorten it, toddcommish's son would make travisg poop his pants.
3/4/2014 1:05 PM
For a medium Papa John's
3/4/2014 1:06 PM
That would be funny.   Maybe they can make a commercial with Peyton Manning delivering the pizza.
3/4/2014 1:14 PM
Better interface.

Better gameplay.

Papa Johns.
3/4/2014 1:16 PM
Posted by toddcommish on 3/4/2014 1:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by frymaster99 on 3/4/2014 11:46:00 AM (view original):
Does anyone think the $25/season price tag is a bit much if the game isn't ever being updated?
Moot point.   You haven't played ANY game here.

Unless you're an alias....
I have played before and did indeed create this account to take advantage of the lower first-season rate. I had to stop in the past due to financial issues and wanted to make it as easy as possible to stick around longer this time around. 
3/4/2014 1:53 PM
the poor customer service is the problem. (customer service does not only refer to their poor response to help tickets) 

WIS/FOX has a community product which they do nothing to improve, they should toss in a 'bell or whistle' if only  to acquire new customers.  
Personally I don't care for the bells and whistles but you would have to be internetly retarded to not know what a difference it would make in attracting new customers. More owners are better for WIS and all of us. 

The loyalty and apologists nature some of us have for the site, should be the foundation for an even more immersive experience. 
In 2014 the next MikeT, Tec, Knucklebones, Mchalesarmy (to name a few) do not only show up for the statistics, probability and simulated baseball game. 

Bells and whistles would allow a more personal and social connection, making it more likely a client will be engaged and in turn committed to the product. Mchalesarmy is so involved in the site and the community he used a lot of personal time to help facilitate the combining of worlds, during a time when all the vacancies and dead world talk was really dragging the site down.
MikeT is the OG, his type of commitment and involvement is what the site needs more of.
Knucklebones does a podcast about HBD and is always willing to help out the noobs.  even dedicating entire shows to breaking down the starting blocks of hbd.
and there are others with same involvement.
but, there are not many new owners who make it past 10 seasons and show the interest of these long timers. 

A sim engine is not broken if it is what it is.
*edited for some of teh tyops
3/4/2014 2:25 PM
Chicken or the egg thing.

The long-time owners were around when HBD started.  We went thru the growing pains of HBD and figured out what we did/didn't like about it.  I can only speak for myself but I think the #1 reason to play/quit is the world(s) you're in.    Most of us have played in "bad" worlds and know to avoid them.    And we've settled into the worlds we like.  n00bs, as a general rule, aren't allowed to join those worlds.   So, IMO, they're forced to pick thru "2nd tier" worlds or worse.   They have no way to know the difference.   So, if they pick the wrong one, it could easily be a bad experience for 3 months and, even if they decide to stick it out, they may end up waiting a month to play season 2.    The long-time owners didn't have that problem as we were all n00bs.
3/4/2014 4:22 PM
I'll add that HBD isn't for everyone.  Almost nothing you do provides instant gratification.    Most people need that.
3/4/2014 4:33 PM

Almost two years ago I won 71 games in Cooperstown.   With the third pick in the draft, I got the Great  Jimmy Powell.  I'm just now getting to bask in the sunshine he creates.

3/4/2014 4:38 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/4/2014 4:38:00 PM (view original):

Almost two years ago I won 71 games in Cooperstown.   With the third pick in the draft, I got the Great  Jimmy Powell.  I'm just now getting to bask in the sunshine he creates.

Meh.  He could have a better 5th pitch.
3/4/2014 7:18 PM
While the original programming of HBD is remarkable, the business model was not thought all the way through, and has certainly not been updated as gaming and online communities have evolved.

Of course a software upgrade or change can go bad. Fortunately, the guys who argue against changes for that reason don't control the software industry. We'd all using DOS and dialing into the internet if innovation depended them.

Game improvements and new features would both increase the number of worlds existing players are in, increase retention, and bring in new players.  Even bumpy upgrades result in more sales. That's how it works in every software and gaming platform.  WIS could go with both New HBD and Classic HBD if a mass exodus is the concern.

There are a LOT of aspects of HBD that could be improved in ways that would make the game take up less time and have equal or more strategy.  Budgeting, coaching hiring, the FA process all take up more time than needed, are far from realistic, and reward time on the site and knowing tricks more than strategy. I believe that's why for a long time before it became obvious WIS wasn't going to upgrade HBD anymore the guys who post here most were all against suggest improvements. They know how to work the system and spend a lot of time here.  Current system works well for them. They don't care that it doesn't work well for most others.

Development / ADV seems to not work as intended. If it did, I don't think there would be so many experienced players with ADV set to 0. 

There is very little feedback on what caused what to happen in game. You can watch 50-100 baseball games and see how often good D helps and bad D hurts. You have to play HBD a long time and really put in a lot of extra time to realize errors and  +/- plays don't capture all that goes on with D. From what I see, players who stick around 2-4 seasons mostly leave teams with OK hitting and crap D. Given how much time and attention it takes to figure out that's generally a losing play, I don't blame them for leaving the game out of frustration. A bit more info would probably keep many of the around longer.

Most of the money in most businesses is in the back end.  Most business lose money on the first sale. Profit comes from repeat buys and from selling more and different stuff to people who've already bought. How many ads are on this site?  Unless you come to the forum, it's 0. And the one ad here is usually crap for this market. Do we get offer to buy other stuff from WIS or FOX?  Or reminders that there's a big sporting event or some other big TV event on FOX tonight? Or ads for other **** that geeky bball & strategy game players buy?  All money WIS is leaving on the table.

Customer support seems to have always replied to tickets that they have something to say about in a day or 2. But the people who give CS instructions are clearly hostile to most of humanity. How many times has WIS taken the side of the person who's the cause of the problem, resulting in others quitting right away or after the season or not adding new teams?  It would be like an airline taking the side of the screaming lunatic on the plane, telling everyone else they should get off the plane if they don't want to hear ranting for 5 hours.

I doubt HBD has ever sold 10% of the market for a bb simulation. You just don't see ads for it in places where folks like us hang out, online or off.  And they have probably burnt out 1/2 of the people they have reached with a stale product, lack of new customer training / intake, and indifferent customer support.

Are you in any other online forums that you pay to be in where there are members like Mike and Tec who frequently unleash personal attacks on other customers who post ideas or question?  Mike runs this place in the eyes of any new prospect or customer who happens to find there way to this forum. He posts a ton of helpful stuff, but he's frequently insulting and hostile. How many people to you think that drives away? Not everyone wants to pay for abuse. If you're going to make money from a paid member site like this, you have to moderate it.  (Mike will never read this far in, so he'll probably never see this.)

The code that runs HBD, under the control of this company, probably can't be fixed or improved very much. It's what happens when the original codes all leave and nothing was very well documented. That reality has taken down a lot of businesses.

Those who say it is what it is and WIS delivers what the promised are right. Shortsighted, but right.  I doubt you could point to this site and get your credit card company to refund your purchase. But there are a lot of reasons you might not purchase again.  Most people tire of games that don't change. If Mike were in charge of all gaming, we'd all be playing Madden 1 and Call of Duty 1.  Upgrade keep people coming back and spending more money.

Now that there's a HBD to look at as a model, it would take less than a year for 2-3 guys, working part-time, to build a game at least as good. And do it in a way that  could be improved upon in future releases. A basic course in marketing, and they've got a high 6-figure business our of the gate. If we found out about it, most of us would go there and signup. And the decision makers at WIS/FOX/EA would probably not really care. This site is probably more of a drag on them than a profit center. More afraid of social media **** storm if the closed it down than the money loss.

I respect that WIS/FOX keeps this game up and running. I'm down to one team, but I'm still here. I get a sense the powers that be at WIS are a mix of hostile and indifferent to input like this. As I've posted before, I'm writing this is the 2-3 guys I hope are out there coding. I think they could make a better bb simulation if they considered some of the ideas posted in this forum.
3/4/2014 7:21 PM
Wow, that was way too long. Sorry.


3/4/2014 7:21 PM
No ****.  I got to New and Classic HBD before I gave it up.

I'll refer to Gridiron Dynasty and Clutch Racing Dynasty for what happens to DYNASTY games when massive overhauls take place.    Do you think that's a good business model?
3/4/2014 8:38 PM
That said, improvements are nice.    Unfortunately, the suggestion forum proves that the customer base certainly doesn't need to be in charge of "improvements".  95% if them are very, very shortsighted and "this would help me" sort of things.    That's just a simple fact.
3/4/2014 8:41 PM

"While the original programming of HBD is remarkable, the business model was not thought all the way through, and has certainly not been updated as gaming and online communities have evolved."

WIS is currently a cash cow for Fox.  A fair amount of steady revenue flowing in, and little expenses other than maintaining the hardware and other operating costs.  That may not have been WIS's original business model, but when they were bought out by Fox, that's what it became.  And if that's what they bought it for, then it's quite a good business model.

"Game improvements and new features would both increase the number of worlds existing players are in, increase retention, and bring in new players."

Not necessarily.  Please see the previous comments about how "improvements" actually drove customers away because they essentially ruined the games.  Also, the history here with HBD in particular was that major "upgrades" rarely have gone smoothly.

"There are a LOT of aspects of HBD that could be improved in ways that would make the game take up less time and have equal or more strategy.  Budgeting, coaching hiring, the FA process all take up more time than needed, are far from realistic, and reward time on the site and knowing tricks more than strategy."

That's been discussed ad nauseum.  Those who offer "improvements" often fail to acknowledge the inherent problems that their suggestions would introduce.  Change for the sake of change is rarely a good idea,

"Customer support seems to have always replied to tickets that they have something to say about in a day or 2. But the people who give CS instructions are clearly hostile to most of humanity. How many times has WIS taken the side of the person who's the cause of the problem, resulting in others quitting right away or after the season or not adding new teams?  It would be like an airline taking the side of the screaming lunatic on the plane, telling everyone else they should get off the plane if they don't want to hear ranting for 5 hours."

No idea what you're referring to here.  Can you explain what you're trying to say?

"I doubt HBD has ever sold 10% of the market for a bb simulation. You just don't see ads for it in places where folks like us hang out, online or off."

Agreed.  They've never put much if any effort into advertising this game.

"Are you in any other online forums that you pay to be in where there are members like Mike and Tec who frequently unleash personal attacks on other customers who post ideas or question?"

I assume you feel that you've been "attacked" at some point.  Truth is, what often happens is that somebody will offer a suggestion that is poorly thought out, and when the pros and cons of said suggestion are discussed, they get quite defensive about any perceived criticism of their ideas and become "the victim".  I'm not saying that personal attacks don't happen.  But they don't happen in a vacuum.  There's usually a number of steps that have led up to them.  Sometimes the person claiming to be the victim actually fires the first shot.

3/4/2014 8:49 PM
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