.500 Record Requirement for D1 Postseason(Poll) Topic

This post has a rating of , which is below the default threshold.
Show
taniajane
Posts: 811 (0)
Hall of Famer
97 55 11
Prospect
Posted by wildcat98 on 5/19/2014 1:15:00 AM (view original):
Posted by taniajane on 5/18/2014 10:13:00 AM (view original):
Posted by mullycj on 5/18/2014 9:21:00 AM (view original):
Posted by taniajane on 5/16/2014 11:19:00 PM (view original):
"True, but as a Big Six coach my point is that the game provides enough inherent advantages to the Big Six already and that they don't need the extra benefit of having a team gain the post season after going 2-14 in conference.  8 wins, 9 wins, 10 wins overall this is not impressive and/or deserving of post season."

yep, and gaming the schedule is not cheating, but don't make it out like it is great coaching
From an HD perspective, intelligent scheduling IS a hugs part of great coaching.    if you are not taking advantage of being able to control your schedule then you are not a complete coach.
Of course it is. But sorry but I wont buy into a Big 6 school that schedules 4-6 Sims and mixes in a Mt St Mary's and a Delaware at home and still barely has a .500 season as being a great coach.
You should worry less about what other coaches are doing with their schedules and more about what YOU'RE doing with YOUR schedule. What you're doing right now will never get you into the PIT if you lose more than 2 or 3 games.
You are fool if think this:

You should worry less about what other coaches are doing with their schedules and more about what YOU'RE doing with YOUR schedule. What you're doing right now will never get you into the PIT if you lose more than 2 or 3 games

Frankly, I do not play the game to 'get into the PIT'. I suppose some people do so.
5/19/2014 8:02 AM (edited)
stewdog
Posts: 297 (0)
Hall of Famer
27 45 1 173 1
Prospect
That was a fun little firestorm.

Truth is, it is ridiculously hard to get a .500 record in conference in a lot of high level conferences. If you can go 10-0 out of conference and only win 3 games in conference (in a very few worlds and conferences), it is a good season! PT is not a bad consolation prize.

My acc Iba comments were taken well, thanks :)
It was just an example that I am familiar with. There certainly are advantages of being in that type of conference. No doubt.
But 1- it's not about the extra chump change the acc needs from pit dollars. That's not my point at all. Actually, I agree with you there, we don't want or need the money. You all make some good points.
2- but it is real hard being in the bottom 2 of a conference like that and winning 4 conference games. If you win 3 and go 10-0 out of conference, you're probably pretty good considering 9 teams in the conference have 780+ ratings, top 20 nationally. And you're probably c+ having to recruit against a+ Teams.
Do you have advantages? Yep. (You worked hard and showed you're a good coach to be able to even get the advantages)
Is it easy now? Not at all. Actually it's rough being a bottom dweller of a great conference. Thus the chance to play for something to prove you're good matters,

I do get some of the comments, and I agree the top teams in these rare top conferences have it pretty easy, but let's be honest. The top few teams in the world are good because of their coaches. And they have it pretty easy no matter where they are with their prestige and the abilities that got them that prestige.
Anyone can join the elite if they are good enough. It might take awhile, but it can happen. I was by no means elite forever. Then something started to click about 20 seasons ago. I began to figure things out. I wasn't handed anything and I have people I know have colluded against me because they didn't like my success. That sucks. I worked hard to get here. So is it wrong to enjoy my success? It will likely be gone soon. I'll enjoy it while it lasts.
5/19/2014 3:11 PM
taniajane
Posts: 811 (0)
Hall of Famer
97 55 11
Prospect
No stew dog. Your are right, people there deserve to be there. Do they deserve to as a sign of their success to live off the top people in their conference and feed off the measly PIT money? It does help them keep their jobs with a slight bump in prestige.
Frankly I think it is more of a Job firing issue. But the PIT helps some fend that off.
Whereas a mid or lower conference coach has a fraction of the money and other than a conf tourn win.no chance at advancing in prestige that is given to others.
5/19/2014 5:00 PM
gillispie1
Posts: 5030 (0)
Hall of Famer
95
Veteran
i think we can all agree that mid majors and low BCS teams get the shaft right now. this is a product of seble's recruit generation change, before that, the complaints from both those departments were not nearly as bad. im not going to suggest people didn't complain, but it was definitely at a more reasonable, par for the course kind of level. and of course, those who quit and stopped complaining, those need to be counted as the loudest of all.

really, the only reason people are so intent on this PIT issue, is because teams in both situations are left fighting for scraps. it shouldn't be that way. people in these situations would be better served to join together and complain about the real problem - d1 recruit generation. 
5/19/2014 5:19 PM
bhansalid00
Posts: 713 (0)
Hall of Famer
104 189 6 1
Prospect
Posted by gillispie1 on 5/19/2014 5:19:00 PM (view original):
i think we can all agree that mid majors and low BCS teams get the shaft right now. this is a product of seble's recruit generation change, before that, the complaints from both those departments were not nearly as bad. im not going to suggest people didn't complain, but it was definitely at a more reasonable, par for the course kind of level. and of course, those who quit and stopped complaining, those need to be counted as the loudest of all.

really, the only reason people are so intent on this PIT issue, is because teams in both situations are left fighting for scraps. it shouldn't be that way. people in these situations would be better served to join together and complain about the real problem - d1 recruit generation. 
Great insight. I'm curious, would you add the relative lack of firings at high D1 to the list of real symptoms?
5/19/2014 5:33 PM
This post has a rating of , which is below the default threshold.
Show
metsmax
Posts: 1590 (0)
Hall of Famer
5 2 807 2
Pro
Posted by taniajane on 5/19/2014 5:45:00 PM (view original):
Posted by gillispie1 on 5/19/2014 5:19:00 PM (view original):
i think we can all agree that mid majors and low BCS teams get the shaft right now. this is a product of seble's recruit generation change, before that, the complaints from both those departments were not nearly as bad. im not going to suggest people didn't complain, but it was definitely at a more reasonable, par for the course kind of level. and of course, those who quit and stopped complaining, those need to be counted as the loudest of all.

really, the only reason people are so intent on this PIT issue, is because teams in both situations are left fighting for scraps. it shouldn't be that way. people in these situations would be better served to join together and complain about the real problem - d1 recruit generation. 
How will D1 recruiting generation benefit others than those with the most money and prestige? (that prestige was artificially created, and the money flowed from it).
it all depends - in great detail - on what is done to recruit generation

what cohort of recruits get better, which get worse.  If the change - for example - not that this is suggested by anyone - were to make the top 50 recruits better it would help the elites.  On the other hand if the change made - say - recruits 150-200 better that would likely have different effects,.

all depends - one cannot generalize
5/19/2014 5:50 PM
stewdog
Posts: 297 (0)
Hall of Famer
27 45 1 173 1
Prospect
Agree there is a firing issue. 
But I also get the business side of things WIS has to deal with. If you fire me, I won't give you my business any more is a real situation that unfortunately has to be dealt with.

I'd love to see a bigger difference between the top couple recruits and the rest of the world... and a bigger difference in potential in the lower rated players. 
In real life, lesser schools do well in the tourney once their players develop and are upperclassmen. 
That's where the super freshmen have their troubles. 
That would make the game more real. 

DO NOT add better players from 100-150 range. 
Add Better POTENTIAL among 100-200 range.
5/19/2014 5:54 PM
taniajane
Posts: 811 (0)
Hall of Famer
97 55 11
Prospect
I agree mets max.....and also the best players in RL do not ALL go to the prestigious schools and there are recruiting money limits stopping that.

This is NOT real life. But it sure is  tilted odd. You start a SIM and give some benefits from the get go to some over others? Then those benefits grow.
Now some complain they want to hang on to the PIT to hang on to their positions in Big 6. (cant be for money) and their money tree,
5/19/2014 5:57 PM
gillispie1
Posts: 5030 (0)
Hall of Famer
95
Veteran
Posted by bhansalid00 on 5/19/2014 5:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by gillispie1 on 5/19/2014 5:19:00 PM (view original):
i think we can all agree that mid majors and low BCS teams get the shaft right now. this is a product of seble's recruit generation change, before that, the complaints from both those departments were not nearly as bad. im not going to suggest people didn't complain, but it was definitely at a more reasonable, par for the course kind of level. and of course, those who quit and stopped complaining, those need to be counted as the loudest of all.

really, the only reason people are so intent on this PIT issue, is because teams in both situations are left fighting for scraps. it shouldn't be that way. people in these situations would be better served to join together and complain about the real problem - d1 recruit generation. 
Great insight. I'm curious, would you add the relative lack of firings at high D1 to the list of real symptoms?
well... thats sort of its own ball of wax, outside of the scope of recruit generation. it is a real problem, but its not a symptom of recruit generation. rather, its a symptom of WIS not wanting to **** of paying customers really badly. obviously they **** off more not firing, but, at least we know where they are coming from?
5/19/2014 6:04 PM
taniajane
Posts: 811 (0)
Hall of Famer
97 55 11
Prospect
Posted by gillispie1 on 5/19/2014 6:04:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bhansalid00 on 5/19/2014 5:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by gillispie1 on 5/19/2014 5:19:00 PM (view original):
i think we can all agree that mid majors and low BCS teams get the shaft right now. this is a product of seble's recruit generation change, before that, the complaints from both those departments were not nearly as bad. im not going to suggest people didn't complain, but it was definitely at a more reasonable, par for the course kind of level. and of course, those who quit and stopped complaining, those need to be counted as the loudest of all.

really, the only reason people are so intent on this PIT issue, is because teams in both situations are left fighting for scraps. it shouldn't be that way. people in these situations would be better served to join together and complain about the real problem - d1 recruit generation. 
Great insight. I'm curious, would you add the relative lack of firings at high D1 to the list of real symptoms?
well... thats sort of its own ball of wax, outside of the scope of recruit generation. it is a real problem, but its not a symptom of recruit generation. rather, its a symptom of WIS not wanting to **** of paying customers really badly. obviously they **** off more not firing, but, at least we know where they are coming from?
yep
5/19/2014 6:09 PM
gillispie1
Posts: 5030 (0)
Hall of Famer
95
Veteran
Posted by metsmax on 5/19/2014 5:50:00 PM (view original):
Posted by taniajane on 5/19/2014 5:45:00 PM (view original):
Posted by gillispie1 on 5/19/2014 5:19:00 PM (view original):
i think we can all agree that mid majors and low BCS teams get the shaft right now. this is a product of seble's recruit generation change, before that, the complaints from both those departments were not nearly as bad. im not going to suggest people didn't complain, but it was definitely at a more reasonable, par for the course kind of level. and of course, those who quit and stopped complaining, those need to be counted as the loudest of all.

really, the only reason people are so intent on this PIT issue, is because teams in both situations are left fighting for scraps. it shouldn't be that way. people in these situations would be better served to join together and complain about the real problem - d1 recruit generation. 
How will D1 recruiting generation benefit others than those with the most money and prestige? (that prestige was artificially created, and the money flowed from it).
it all depends - in great detail - on what is done to recruit generation

what cohort of recruits get better, which get worse.  If the change - for example - not that this is suggested by anyone - were to make the top 50 recruits better it would help the elites.  On the other hand if the change made - say - recruits 150-200 better that would likely have different effects,.

all depends - one cannot generalize
mets is right, but its not like its always been this way. before the recruit generation change, a great coach could win championships from an empty conference, or from a low bcs - in 1 shot - like you could take a b- bcs and just win a title straight away, without a hard rebuild. good coaches could compete just fine from those ranks, too, although probably not at the title level. i know personally, because i won my first d1 title as a total d1 noobie, from a c prestige bcs school - but tons of other veterans would agree on this. its way harder to rebuild a low BCS school now than it used to be, and its way harder to take a mid major past the 1st round of the NT with any regularity. its hard to say how much harder, because frankly, its not even comparable (its that much harder).

so, the thing is tania, recruiting is complex and the answer is very complex, but the inequality in this game is new to seble's recruit generation change. that we know. we also know a full 30% of ALL d1 teams got dropped within 6 months of seble's change, because people hated it that much. so while i can't tell you exactly why certain changes would help (although, i do think i could do a pretty damn good job at it), the point really is that there was a balance, and the last change totally upset that balance. the balance needs to be restored, and its already proven its possible - because thats how it was before seble broke it. its by far, by a massive margin, his biggest mistake in his time as HD admin. its really a shame its been so long without a correction. outside this one blight, seble has actually done a pretty damn good job - he fixed potential - the projection report - and a bunch of other little stuff. but the recruit generation change is also probably the most damaging release in HD history - even the initial potential release didn't cause so many teams to be shed.
5/19/2014 6:10 PM
gillispie1
Posts: 5030 (0)
Hall of Famer
95
Veteran
Posted by taniajane on 5/19/2014 5:57:00 PM (view original):
I agree mets max.....and also the best players in RL do not ALL go to the prestigious schools and there are recruiting money limits stopping that.

This is NOT real life. But it sure is  tilted odd. You start a SIM and give some benefits from the get go to some over others? Then those benefits grow.
Now some complain they want to hang on to the PIT to hang on to their positions in Big 6. (cant be for money) and their money tree,
i hope you recognize this fact - most of the coaches here arguing against the PIT .500 limit, they aren't the coaches who directly benefit (from getting all those PIT bids). for example, me - i'm the most vocally against it, and also one of the most successful coaches ever, clearly i am not scraping by off PIT bids. you seem to have this stance on a handful of issues - that people want things for these greedy, selfish reasons. but i think really its that many of us have lived through this game, and our entire body of experience is driving us in a different direction. there is nothing wrong with that, just like there is nothing wrong with being new and unaware of all that has happened in HD, having not lived through it. hell, i missed at least 5 years myself. i think its history, more than a selfish standpoint to cause people like you and me to disagree on so many issues. i guess i just hope you will openly consider our viewpoints without the backdrop of "its got to be for greed" - just like we do with yours - because thats how good progress is made conversations. most of the coaches here have good intentions, and want what is best for the game - including the vast majority of people against the .500 limit. by suggesting its all for greed, you really diminish the conversation. just because you want what is best for the game, and so do i, doesn't mean we are going to reach the same specific conclusions - and there is nothing wrong with that!
5/19/2014 6:14 PM
taniajane
Posts: 811 (0)
Hall of Famer
97 55 11
Prospect
You talk about balance as in luke skywalker getting a lesson.  How can ,  or more Precisely can you see a change in the recruit generation effecting anyone other than those with money

What change?
5/19/2014 6:14 PM
◂ Prev 1...8|9|10|11|12 Next ▸
.500 Record Requirement for D1 Postseason(Poll) Topic
△Top△Bottom

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2024 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.