I've been on a hiatus from Hoops Dynasty for a couple of years now and I've noticed that seble is back in action with some small changes. They all seem very nice and should substantially enhance the experience of the game, but I think we all know it's time to attack some more pressing (pun not intended) issues. 

One of the reasons I stopped playing was due to how unrealistically effective the fullcourt press is. If you have solid depth in the FCP, you can compensate for inferior cores to an extent that just does not make sense. In real life, it's not nearly as feasible to run the FCP because players wear down quicker and it's simply a less effective/consistent defense; it requires much greater athleticism and stamina. 

Before I come back, I'd really like to see some leveling out of the three defenses. Currently, very few teams compete at a high level running the zone and it seems even the M2M is becoming less and less popular. 

I'm not exactly sure of how to solve this issue--some have suggested that players should just wear down much quicker in the FCP--but that doesn't solve the issue of the zone lagging far behind. Another possible solution is to encourage running multiple defenses, which is what I am in favor of, but it also will require a lot of time for development and testing. 

Thoughts?

man is by far the favored set in competitive d1. press might be a little strong elsewhere, but i think its pretty balanced in d1. the fatigue and foul situations for press are more severe than when you stopped, making an educated guess at when you left. running press 10 men deep can be pretty rough, even with all 10 at all the right positions. 

Posted by gillispie1 on 5/27/2014 10:48:00 PM (view original):
man is by far the favored set in competitive d1. press might be a little strong elsewhere, but i think its pretty balanced in d1. the fatigue and foul situations for press are more severe than when you stopped, making an educated guess at when you left. running press 10 men deep can be pretty rough, even with all 10 at all the right positions. 

That's good to hear, but I imagine zone is still used sparingly at DI? And maybe someone can chime in to apprise me on the effectiveness of the press in DII and DIII, where it's much easier to fill up a roster of 12.  

In Wooden D3, there are 5 M2M teams and 1 Zone team in the Top 25. 

Edit: Figured I'd also mention that the Top 10 is all FCP teams. 

In DI, it's a pretty even split between M2M and FCP. There are no Zone teams in the Top 25. 

If all the conditions are right - your players have the right skills and you have 8 or 9 of them at "A" FCP IQ and the other 3 or 4 can also play and have B or B+, then FCP is very strong.

Those if's are tough standard however.

good info trail.  i had no idea it was that lopsided.

there has been talk for a long time... going all the way back to tarek i think, that press and fastbreak would not be base defenses and offenses, but rather modifiers of +/- variety where coach could choose how often or how agressively he wanted to  press or fastbreak.   that has allways seemed like a great idea to me, but clearly its not an easy programming change.  

i havent really thought it through,  but i think i wish the offenses and defenses were a little more "rock papaer, scissors"  where there was a certain offense that would give you a substantial edge against the press (although it might be a disadvantage against zone, or whatever) .     heck, maybe it does work that way and i just havent figured it out?

With the right players (good Def IQ Ratings, SPD. ATH, DEF, STA) a press team can be very good at Div-II and Div-III ... but inconsistent if you have to play a high negative defense (-3, -4, -5) as there is a good chance of many fouls. 

But you really need good depth as starters, even with fairly high stamina, only play 22-24 minutes per game on fairly fresh .. and even on Fairly Fresh they can become tired or very tired by the end of the game.  You can easily have 10 players all between 17 and 22 minutes per game in the press.  If you can always have 10 or 11 players then it can be strong.

At Div-1, it seems M2M is the preferred D.  Likely because it is hard to always have 12 quality players.

Note:  Here are 2 current worlds in the Final Four of the NT and the team breakdowns for the Elite 8:

Naismith:
Div-1 :  8 Man teams
Div-2:   4 Press, 3 Man, 1 Press/Man (combo)
Div-3:   5 Press, 3 Man

Tarkanian:
Div-1:   6 Man, 2 Press
Div-2:   7 Press, 1 Man
Div-3:   4 Press, 3 Man, 1 Zone

I don't know bout D1, but you can definitely win at D2 running the zone defense.  In Knight (the strongest D2 world?), milwood at Virginia Union has had this run for the last four seasons:

71	milwood	28-6	13-0	9-4	6-2	15-1	3	5	6	A+	Conf Champion NT At-large Bid NT (Final Four)
70	milwood	30-5	10-2	12-2	8-1	14-2	1	1	2	A+	Conf Champion NT At-large Bid National Champion
69	milwood	24-9	8-4	11-3	5-2	11-5	13	13	8	A+	Conf Champion NT At-large Bid NT (Elite 8)
68	milwood	23-9	7-3	12-4	4-2	11-5	18	19	14	A	NT At-large Bid NT (Elite 8)

VU has run nothing but zone throughout.

Yes in D2. Not as pronounced in D1.

Posted by trail on 5/28/2014 12:21:00 AM (view original):
In Wooden D3, there are 5 M2M teams and 1 Zone team in the Top 25. 

Edit: Figured I'd also mention that the Top 10 is all FCP teams. 

But #11 runs M2M! 

Fun note for VU over those four seasons, I've won the conference tournament exactly 0 times in this short run and only once in my tenure at VU. It helps to have all the post season cash the central provides every season. (Shameless plug: come join the Central in knight DII next season).

Car crazy, I started a thread exactly like this a couple of years ago. I had the same complaint, but since then I structure my team to beat press teams. If you can do that then you'll be set up to beat any team you play. You CANNOT give up on ball handling and passing and hope to beat the press consistently. Now, except for this season, I look forward to playing press teams.

I think the losses to press teams are by far more annoying than other losses. I hate seeing that my team outshoots my opponent 53% to 40% but I still lose by five points because of the 20+ turnovers by the bad defensive press team

I'm opting to carry press breakers on my roster. PGs who do nothing but handle the ball and have high speed and athleticism and decent FT ratings to take advantage of fouls. Since I'm still a new player, it's not a perfect response, but I've been doing well against SIM FCP teams since last season doing it. Just have to give up a roster spot to an otherwise unproductive player (I'm in D3). Of course carrying guards that can't shoot well can be a liability when it's time to face a zone D. Tradeoffs, tradeoffs.

To build a program at the D1, I've found that it's easier to do that running zone than FCP. In the 4 D1 schools I've been at in Iba, I've run zone/press combo, zone, zone, and zone and turned the first 3 from nobodies into top-25 programs. You don't need as much depth and can afford the luxury of carrying a walkon or two. That frees you up to spend more $/recruit which should allow you to land better players (everything else being equal...which it isn't). If you recruit the right players and game plan appropriately, you can beat FCP teams regularly. But those teams, just like a M2M or zone, can beat you any given day too.

I run press on my d1 teams, but it am certainly in the minority among the top schools.
Man is by FAR the most effective there.

My ga tech team, though has been pretty good for the last 20 seasons consecutively at press, but it'll only last if you have depth, which can be tough.