I am thinking of recruiting a kid with single digits in the WE dept but has a lot of blue.  Is he worth it?
8/1/2014 12:08 PM
i'd say no, your looking with good playing time maybe 10-15 improvements points per season. Players with 1 WE will MAYBE improve 10 points over 4 seasons. I don't recruit anyone under 30 but have made exceptions for 25-30 WE
8/1/2014 12:21 PM
You should search this forum for the trentonjoe threads on low WE.  I want to say they're called Low WE test #1, #2, etc..something along those lines.  They'll give you an idea of how much improvement to expect (spoiler alert: some, but not much).

Short version is it can be worth it if the current ratings are already pretty useful as is.  If you're expecting/needing them to reach anywhere near full potential, then you'll be disappointed.  IQ growth will also be extra slow, and they'll need lots of starts/minutes to show even modest improvement.
8/1/2014 12:23 PM
Thanks for killing my hopes and dreams you two... :( !  Lol.  Thanks for the help though!!
8/1/2014 12:25 PM
Realize also that players with high-high potential will improve faster than players of the same work ethic and low-high potential. If this player has several high-high potentials, he might be worth taking another look at, especially if he has the current ability to play at least 15 MPG for your team.
8/1/2014 1:18 PM
Starting WE of 9:

Ratings History
Season Type A SPD REB DE BLK LP PE BH P WE ST DU FT OVR
93 Current 62 59 24 53 18 13 66 37 25 11 68 68 B+ 504
93 Season Start 57 56 29 49 15 16 61 32 21 9 65 64 B+ 474

30 Points gain with 26 regular season starts and over 15 mpg (15.2 average, but that counts the 3 games after the reg season where he got 3, 1, and 4 minutes each).
8/1/2014 2:14 PM
Posted by zbrent716 on 8/1/2014 2:14:00 PM (view original):
Starting WE of 9:

Ratings History
Season Type A SPD REB DE BLK LP PE BH P WE ST DU FT OVR
93 Current 62 59 24 53 18 13 66 37 25 11 68 68 B+ 504
93 Season Start 57 56 29 49 15 16 61 32 21 9 65 64 B+ 474

30 Points gain with 26 regular season starts and over 15 mpg (15.2 average, but that counts the 3 games after the reg season where he got 3, 1, and 4 minutes each).
Was this a true freshman?
8/1/2014 2:36 PM
Posted by jaymc2007 on 8/1/2014 2:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by zbrent716 on 8/1/2014 2:14:00 PM (view original):
Starting WE of 9:

Ratings History
Season Type A SPD REB DE BLK LP PE BH P WE ST DU FT OVR
93 Current 62 59 24 53 18 13 66 37 25 11 68 68 B+ 504
93 Season Start 57 56 29 49 15 16 61 32 21 9 65 64 B+ 474

30 Points gain with 26 regular season starts and over 15 mpg (15.2 average, but that counts the 3 games after the reg season where he got 3, 1, and 4 minutes each).
Was this a true freshman?
Yes.
8/1/2014 2:44 PM
It'll be interesting to see how much he changes in the off-season, compared to a better WE player
8/1/2014 2:51 PM
zbrent, would you mind posting how he starts next season in terms of ratings when that becomes available?
8/1/2014 2:52 PM
Ok next question, if I am going to take this player and he won't get much playing time this year but will next year, should I redshirt him or just not even take him?  And if I am going to redshirt him, should I inform him of it or just let him find out when he gets on campus?
8/1/2014 2:58 PM
Posted by jaymc2007 on 8/1/2014 2:58:00 PM (view original):
Ok next question, if I am going to take this player and he won't get much playing time this year but will next year, should I redshirt him or just not even take him?  And if I am going to redshirt him, should I inform him of it or just let him find out when he gets on campus?
That's a complex question that's hard to answer completely without knowing your exact situation.  Here are some things to consider regarding redshirting:

1) Generally speaking, it is more beneficial to redshirt a player with high work ethic and/or a lot of high potentials.  In those situations your player will benefit more from the extra year.  If it's the really low WE guy that you are thinking about redshirting, then the extra season really won't help that much -- he won't gain much in ratings for that extra year and he may lose a lot of what he did gain during the offseason after the redshirt year.

2) That being said, it *can* be a good play to redshirt a guy with relatively low WE if you think that you will start him after the RS year.   The benefit of the RS would be to get the guy's IQ up during the extra year so that he can play major minutes as soon as the RS year ends.  I'm not sure I would do this for a really low WE player, but I did this once for a player with a WE in the low 20s and the extra PT I could give him in his RS Freshman year helped with his development.

3) To inform or not to inform about RS ... this really depends on your recruiting situation.  They key thing to understand here is that informing of a redshirt always counts as negative recruiting effort -- so usually I send a couple of home visits or a campus visit at the same time as an inform RS to offset the negative impact it creates.  Obviously that extra effort costs money, so If I think I need to save money for battles, scouting, etc. -- then generally I take my chances and don't inform the recruit of the RS.  If I have money in the bank and am fairly certain I'm going to get the guy anyway, then I'm more likely to inform.

Also, if you don't inform of RS during recruiting but apply it after the guy shows on campus, his decision on whether to accept it without making a fuss is dictated largely by the quality of the other guys on your roster.  If your recruit is one of the worst guys on your roster in terms of overall ratings, he's a lot more likely to take the RS.  So you can also think about where said recruit would rank compared to your returning players and other recruiting targets when deciding whether to inform of the RS.


For really low WE guys (<20, let's say) -- I tend to evaluate them based on their current skills and not their potentials.  Can the guy you are targeting help your team if his skills don't improve at all or improve by only a couple of points?  If he can't, I would move on to someone else.  
8/1/2014 4:04 PM
Posted by jaymc2007 on 8/1/2014 12:08:00 PM (view original):
I am thinking of recruiting a kid with single digits in the WE dept but has a lot of blue.  Is he worth it?
Nope, erase that thought right away.
8/1/2014 4:48 PM
This is William Kammer.

http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/RatingsHistory.aspx?tid=14186&pid=2699632

I don't remember what he started at, but I think it was like 22 WE. He was a bench guy the first two seasons, then he was a starter for half the year, then his entire SR year. I recruited him because his starting ratings in per, bh, pass were already in the 70's. Even if he never improved, he was still highly rated.

When I scouted him, he was high/high in Def,Per, BH, Pass. With better WE he would have been 60/80/67 ath/spd/d with 95/100/100/85 per/bh/p/stam. As you can see, he never got there. Missing at a minimum 10 points in D, 8 in PER, 10 in BH, 15 in P and 5 in stam. In the end, his ratings were still enough to make him worthwhile recruiting.

But I can't help but think about the player he could have been versus the player he was. And this is with a 22 WE. He would have been truly awful with a single digit WE.
8/1/2014 5:56 PM
This is Burt Godley...Currently a jr. and started with a WE of 14

74 Current 46 75 2 44 8 18 52 66 49 25 74 89 C- 548
74 Season Start 42 71 2 41 8 17 51 65 48 22 72 89 C- 528
73 Season End 41 71 1 42 7 17 52 64 46 22 76 85 C- 524
73 Season Start 33 62 1 35 7 16 51 61 44 17 73 83 D+ 483
72 Season End 33 63 1 34 7 16 52 63 46 17 74 80 D+ 486
72 Season Start 27 56 1 29 7 15 52 60 44 14 71 78 D 454
8/1/2014 10:21 PM
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