Team #2 Was able to land this recruit while being almost $10k behind in spending.  I was under the assumption $ spent is mostly the be all end all besides promised starts.  Both teams offered same soph promised starts.  Can anyone explain why recruit signed with team who gave far less effort???

Team #1 Efforts;
1/17/15 Phone Call - Head Coach $15 10 $150
1/17/15 Letter $15 10 $150
1/17/15 Campus Visit $1,037 1 $1,037
1/17/15 Guaranteed Starting Spot - Sophomore - Accepted $100 1 $100
1/17/15 Phone Call - Head Coach $15 10 $150
1/17/15 Phone Call - Head Coach $15 9 $135
1/17/15 Campus Visit $1,037 1 $1,037
1/16/15 Campus Visit $1,037 1 $1,037
1/16/15 Campus Visit $1,037 1 $1,037
1/16/15 Campus Visit $1,037 1 $1,037
1/16/15 Campus Visit $1,037 1 $1,037
1/16/15 Campus Visit $0 1 $0
1/16/15 Campus Visit $1,037 1 $1,037
1/16/15 Campus Visit $1,037 1 $1,037
1/16/15 Campus Visit $1,037 1 $1,037
1/16/15 Campus Visit $1,037 1 $1,037
1/16/15 Campus Visit $1,037 1 $1,037
1/15/15 Campus Visit $1,037 1 $1,037
1/15/15 Campus Visit $1,037 1 $1,037
1/15/15 Campus Visit $1,037 1 $1,037
1/15/15 Campus Visit $0 1 $0
1/15/15 Campus Visit $1,037 1 $1,037
1/15/15 Campus Visit $1,037 1 $1,037
1/14/15 Campus Visit $1,037 1 $1,037
1/14/15 Campus Visit $1,037 1 $1,037
1/14/15 Campus Visit $0 1 $0
1/14/15 Campus Visit $0 1 $0
1/14/15 Campus Visit $1,037 1 $1,037
1/14/15 Campus Visit $1,037 1 $1,037
1/14/15 Campus Visit $0 1 $0
1/14/15 Campus Visit $0 1 $0
1/14/15 Campus Visit $1,037 1 $1,037
1/14/15 Campus Visit $1,037 1 $1,037
1/14/15 Campus Visit $0 1 $0
1/14/15 Campus Visit $1,037 1 $1,037
1/14/15 Declined - Scholarship Offer $100 1 $100
1/13/15 Scouting Trip - Assistant Coach $260 1 $260
Total: $24,896


Team #2 Effort
1/19/15 Phone Call - Assistant Coach $10 1 $10
1/19/15 Phone Call - Assistant Coach $10 1 $10
1/18/15 Phone Call - Assistant Coach $10 5 $50
1/18/15 Phone Call - Head Coach $15 5 $75
1/18/15 Letter $15 3 $45
1/17/15 Phone Call - Assistant Coach $10 1 $10
1/17/15 Phone Call - Head Coach $15 1 $15
1/17/15 Letter $15 1 $15
1/17/15 Home Visit - Head Coach $640 1 $640
1/16/15 Campus Visit $1,027 1 $1,027
1/16/15 Phone Call - Assistant Coach $10 1 $10
1/16/15 Phone Call - Head Coach $15 1 $15
1/16/15 Letter $15 1 $15
1/16/15 Campus Visit $1,027 4 $4,108
1/16/15 Phone Call - Head Coach $15 5 $75
1/15/15 Campus Visit $1,027 1 $1,027
1/15/15 Campus Visit $1,027 1 $1,027
1/15/15 Phone Call - Assistant Coach $10 10 $100
1/14/15 Campus Visit $1,027 1 $1,027
1/14/15 Campus Visit $1,027 3 $3,081
1/14/15 Campus Visit $1,027 3 $3,081
1/14/15 Guaranteed Starting Spot - Sophomore - Accepted $100 1 $100
1/14/15 Accepted - Scholarship Offer $100 1 $100
1/13/15 Scouting Trip - Assistant Coach $243 1 $243 
TOTAL:$15,906

I think it is generally accepted that after signing starts or later in recruiting that things have an amplified effect. My guess is since team #2 spent more money after #1 stopped that it was enough to sway the recruit in that favor. It also appears that #2 had a very slight distance advantage over #1 so even though it was only 16k it might have still been close in terms of "attention" to the recruit. 

Yea that has always confused me also. How a team with far less money can win a battle or at least extend it so you lose a ton of money.

How do you know exactly how much your opponent spent and on what?

Thanks hook.  I would just like to add that team #2 had the lead when the signing period started.  Team #1 took the lead late in the day on the 16th.  Then the very next cycle team #2 sent the 4 CV's and regained the lead and never relinquished it. 

Patience wins. Don't shoot your wad too soon.

My opponent and I shared our spending info.  I had sent him a message congratulating him on the battle and told him not too feel bad because I spent almost $16k(which is ridic in D#).  He immediately responded that he spent almost $25k.  So we decided to break it down

I'm not seeing an accepted schollie offer from team 1

As the losing coach, i'll toss in some thoughts and info:

Bjschumacher, I thought I was being patient with the approach. Our date stamp doesn't show the times of the CV's but based on our analysis, the lead was taken and not given up when he sent 4CV's on 1/16. I received an email stating, "Lebanon Valley is the place for me Coach. Just say the word and I'm there," at 3:10pm on 1/16. At 3:11pm on 1/16 I received another email stating, "Coach, I'm thinking that I'm better off someplace else, but you never know. I won't rule you out just yet." At this point, I know cman2k is in the lead but I figure it's close. On four consecutive cycles I have CV's accepted of 1, 2, 1, 1. Then, you can see my last effort to go all in on 1/17 starting with the Phone Calls. Either it wasn't as close as I thought or the recruiting efforts at that point had a lesser impact then previous efforts of the same choice.

Hookemhorns7, I'm pretty sure I spent more money then him after he stopped and the distance advantage is insignificant as you stated. Based on yatzr he's 219 miles away to my 305 miles.

The things I wonder about are the differences in number of CV's taken at one time, when the Soph start was offered, and his team prestige/vision versus mine (his is definitely better I would think.)

Ultimately, it's an interesting situation that has changed my perception of how I thought the system worked.

jc1796, I really hope it's not something as stupid as that on my part. I never withdrew my scholarship offer and I can't recall ever having the option of offering again. An expensive lesson to learn that could have been learned for $360. Good catch because I don't think I would have noticed that.

Posted by mraston on 1/20/2015 10:53:00 PM (view original):
jc1796, I really hope it's not something as stupid as that on my part. I never withdrew my scholarship offer and I can't recall ever having the option of offering again. An expensive lesson to learn that could have been learned for $360. Good catch because I don't think I would have noticed that.

Two things... one he did spend more money than you after you stopped.... from what I am reading you stopped on the 17th and he continued to the 19th. Low cost things yes but "attention" nontheless. I'm not saying that is for sure I am just going off what I am seeing from the post. If he did indeed flip on the 16th then it must have been how the money was spent. Second to your and jc's comment, he would of course reject the scholarship offer from you when he accepted the one from team #2...so you didn't take it back he just rejects it when he accepts another one.

I will say this though, I understand your frustration. At DIII any player that costs into 5 figures is ridiculous and you put more into this guy than I put into some of my DIA signees and to lose doesn't make much sense. I don't know if you will get a clear cut answer to this dilema or not and a ticket will do you no good because WIS will feed you both some BS.

hookemhorns7, I see what you mean now about him continuing to spend. Thanks for clarifying.

I'm definitely not sending a ticket. It's a game and things happen.

Historical point. We played, cman2k and I, in the final four this season and I lost because I couldn't stop his RB. It was a back I remember choosing not to battle for because at the time I didn't think I could win the battle. I decided when we both ended up on the same RB that I was going to battle this time and see what happens. I was grateful that cman2k was willing to share info so that I, and hopefully he as well, could learn something from getting to see the situation in greater detail. The four walkons I'm taking mess up some of my scholarship rotation but it's definitely not the end of the world. I appreciate your insight. 

I was bummed when you took NAU in Wilkinson. As an alumni, I'm hoping to grab that someday. Obviously my recruiting skills aren't ready for that level.

Posted by mraston on 1/20/2015 11:21:00 PM (view original):
hookemhorns7, I see what you mean now about him continuing to spend. Thanks for clarifying.

I'm definitely not sending a ticket. It's a game and things happen.

Historical point. We played, cman2k and I, in the final four this season and I lost because I couldn't stop his RB. It was a back I remember choosing not to battle for because at the time I didn't think I could win the battle. I decided when we both ended up on the same RB that I was going to battle this time and see what happens. I was grateful that cman2k was willing to share info so that I, and hopefully he as well, could learn something from getting to see the situation in greater detail. The four walkons I'm taking mess up some of my scholarship rotation but it's definitely not the end of the world. I appreciate your insight. 

I was bummed when you took NAU in Wilkinson. As an alumni, I'm hoping to grab that someday. Obviously my recruiting skills aren't ready for that level.

No problem, sorry I couldn't be a bit more helpful, just trying to show what I know from experience and what I observed from the info provided before additional details were let known.

I will try to build NAU up for you then so that when you're ready you can take them over lol. Or we would definitely like to see you in the Big Sky next season!!

The statement in the OP - " ...was under the assumption $ spent is mostly the be all end all" - is that the case? I was under the impression that the units count, not the money spent per unit. For example, my 10 visits at $1000 carry the same weight as your 10 visits that cost $500 each. Hence the 'distance advantage'. Just for clarification's sake.

hypnotoad, I have thought about it in the same way. Yet, in this case, I would have had more "units", 23-7 on CV's, and still lost the battle. So, it appears there might be something else that is part of the system.