Posted by rogelio on 4/6/2015 2:38:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tkimble on 4/6/2015 12:07:00 AM (view original):
Coach K is probably in the top 5, but Wooden is undoubtedly #1.  There's no way winning this title would "cement" K as #1.  

Wooden? Ever heard of Sam Gilbert? Those UCLA titles were bought and had a payroll. Wooden might have been a saint, but why did he believe all that talent was willing to sit on the bench happily?

I agree that Coach K is the best coach in history.    I suspect, however, that most  top coaches 'look the other way' when it comes to boosters, agents, etc. 

Can Towns hit the 10-12ft shot? I've only seen maybe 6-8 of his games. He gets good position in college; but not sure if it will be so easy in the pros for him. I agree that he should have been the #1 focal point of offense. He should touch the ball almost every possession. Okafor's free throw shooting does suck and I'm shocked no one played hack a Okafor. He shows Duncan flashes sometimes with his 10ft bank shots of which if he can develop that more, he can be very effective in the pros.

Coach K is the best coach of my generation, the best coach of my era, the best coach from the past 25 years. I am sorry, people arguing with this are nuts. Now, before that, you can make a case for anybody. There was good coaches playing against him in the NCAA, Boeheim (my favorite until the scandal), Jim Calhoun. There is John Calipari, Rick Pitino (the best of these two).

Who will replace Coach K, the next years, I had the Butler coach, Brad Stevens and Shaka Smart as possible replacements.. But Stevens is in the NBA, Smart seems overrated. Will see what he does at Texas. If he gets to the final four in 4 years of tenure, we could make an argument on him.

I always assumed Wojo was the heir apparent at Duke ant that he went to Marquette to prove he could coach

Any of the past players/coaches could come back and take the job. I think coach K goes 5 mores yr and reaches 40 yrs at Duke. I credit a lot of Dukes success this yr to Capel. He has brought the toughness Duke has needed. I hope he sticks around and takes over for coach K but I think he gets an offer after tonight.

yeah, coach K is definitely top 5. i was just being a depressed smart *** about the ineligibility thing. i am serious about the advancing the game part though, i think that is an important consideration. the best coaches change the game, not just a school or "move the student section". they understand it well enough to see what others cannot, and bring out new tactics that forever change the way the game is played. wooden did it, on top of 10 titles. coach K has less than half (although i do think its silly to give those 10 full weight, there are a lot of mitigating circumstances - just like most of the great runs in HD history). but more importantly i dont think he has advanced the game of basketball, tactically or strategically. i think this is an important part of the "best ever" discussion.

the win count is obviously cherry picking as well, its an unfair advantage over all previous coaches. for his lack of advancing the game, i still put coach K behind rupp and wooden, at the minimum. if coach K wins tonight, IMO, its the first time coach K has a solid argument over rupp. right now, i think it favors rupp. 4 titles each, bigger contributions for rupp to the game itself. rupp sports the best winning % in the history of the game, at least among the coaches who racked up a sizable number of wins. hes about 6% higher than coach K. ill admit thats not exactly fair either, considering strength of the conferences, but still not as bad as the win count inflation. also, rupp won with mostly local kids. recruiting is a huge part of the game today, before it was raw coaching. under that model, rupp over coach K any day of the week. in rupp's day, coach K couldn't compete with him. but maybe today the reverse is true? hard to say.

in short, i think you could pick either guy, but to say coach K clearly is ahead of rupp, i think that is a fairly ridiculous position. to say there is argument for coach K, number 1, fine. to say its clear or cemented or anything, that is just silly, its just short term bias playing out (as it always has?).

edit: this is also taking a minimalist view of rupps titles, at 4. he has 4 NCAA, but also 2 helms national championships. its not clear exactly how to count them, i think 5 is probably the fair figure (not just splitting the difference, the first helms championship came at a time when NCAA wasnt that important, the second came when it was pretty much the standard, and Rupp opted out of the NCAA tournament). i think rupp is *already* ahead if you just count 4, but the 5th or 6th would make it a run-away. does coach K have anything else to match that? gold medals, when the USA has won almost all of the gold medals in basketball? it helps, but its not something i would or do give anyone much credit for, more of a "you didn't screw up" to me.

How do you define long term contributions to the game? That seems like a somewhat gauzy criterion.

im not sure, it is fuzzy. you could go as far as to include calipari for his contributions to the 1 and done paradigm, but i wouldn't. Sam Barrys innovations on the triangle offense, i would. i don't know where the line is, but i also don't know if coach K has done anything that could be considered over that line, regardless of where you draw it? (within reason - moving a student section is not within reason - if coach K is even the innovator there, i have no idea). 

i think most of the traditional greats made a lasting impression on the way the game is played, if you want to use that sort of measuring stick.

I'm sorry but only a Kentucky homer thinks that Rupp is ahead of Coach K.  You want to discount some of Wooden's titles, but not only do you NOT discount some of Rupp's, you add two more in there as well.  It's very well documented on these boards that I'm a huge Duke fan and that you're a huge Kentucky fan with a rabid dislike of anything Duke or Coach K, but in order to have a rational discussion you've got to put all that hate to the side and look at it without those blinders on.

Again, every credible analyst, every single one, has said that if Duke wins tonight that they would put K "in the argument" for the best coach ever.  Not one of them has uttered or mentioned a single word about Adolph Rupp.  John Wooden's name has come up (naturally), as has mention of both Dean Smith and Bob Knight.  Not a whisper about Adolph Rupp.

I don't think you can discount K's win totals without also discounting Rupp's winning percentage.  They played less games and against lesser competition.  Why wouldn't he have a better winning percentage?  I wonder how many of those wins came against lily-white teams that had yet to be integrated?  Kind of takes away from the accomplishment when you're not playing against the best competition at that level, don't you think?  Face it, what K has accomplished has come under much tougher conditions that what Adolph Rupp faced and his numbers are still as good or better.  You hate Coach K, that's well known.  You call him "rat face", good on ya.  Still doesn't take away from the fact that he is a better coach than the best your school can offer up.

I know you like to debate, in fact I think you enjoy it immensely and there's certainly nothing wrong with that.  But this is a losing proposition that you're trying to defend.  Anyone with any kind of credible basketball knowledge would certainly put Coach K in the top 2 and could argue very easily that he should be called the best.  Adolph Rupp is not in the discussion.  Sorry, he's just not.  It's either John Wooden or Mike Krzyzewski (and no, I didn't have to look up his name.  True Duke fans don't).

This is all a clever ruse to take away the REAL important nugget in this thread.....If Wisconsin wins tonight, Rutgers will be the TRANSITIVE National Champion due to their victory over the Badgers in January.....Also, since Rutgers beat Wisconsin, and Wisconsin beat Kentucky, and Kentucky would have beaten the Knicks, Rutgers is practically an NBA level team.

Emy please admit it 1 time! I'm right!!! We didn't need Okafor!!!

Posted by whitey34 on 4/6/2015 11:24:00 PM (view original):
Emy please admit it 1 time! I'm right!!! We didn't need Okafor!!!

ya you just had the refs... that out of bounds was the biggest bs in recent memory.  3 point game and it shouldve been wisky's ball instead duke gets its back and makes it a 6 point play.  granted wisky sucked those last few minutes and didnt know how to play uptempo in the last few minutes those last 30 seconds were horrendous

Yah know ... It was a great game, an AWSOME game between two GREAT teams and one of them won can we leave it at that?

Posted by whitey34 on 4/6/2015 11:24:00 PM (view original):
Emy please admit it 1 time! I'm right!!! We didn't need Okafor!!!

We got by without Okafor tonight.  HELL YEAH WE DID!  2015 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS!!!!!!!!!

Kentucky who?  Ha!

Posted by the0nlyis on 4/6/2015 11:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by whitey34 on 4/6/2015 11:24:00 PM (view original):
Emy please admit it 1 time! I'm right!!! We didn't need Okafor!!!

ya you just had the refs... that out of bounds was the biggest bs in recent memory.  3 point game and it shouldve been wisky's ball instead duke gets its back and makes it a 6 point play.  granted wisky sucked those last few minutes and didnt know how to play uptempo in the last few minutes those last 30 seconds were horrendous

That out of bounds call WAS a bad call, anyone not severely blinded by loyalty could see that.  Winslow's fingertip "barely" grazed the ball and yes, it should have been Wisconsin's ball.  But one play does NOT decide a game.......right?