Solving the lack of offense Topic

tecwrg
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How many runs scored on strikeouts in the Yankee game yesterday?

How many runs scored on other type of outs in the Yankee game yesterday?

Are those two numbers the same?

4/20/2015 4:32 PM
themergerguy
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What percent of strikeouts are ruled sacrifices?

4/20/2015 4:33 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by themergerguy on 4/20/2015 4:29:00 PM (view original):
What percent of strikeouts have a chance of becoming an out?
The same percentage as outs in play:





0


 Edit - I read that as "hit". You meant "hit" right? If you meant "out" then 100. Like all other outs in play.
4/20/2015 4:34 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by tecwrg on 4/20/2015 4:32:00 PM (view original):
How many runs scored on strikeouts in the Yankee game yesterday?

How many runs scored on other type of outs in the Yankee game yesterday?

Are those two numbers the same?

Should I just quote your post from another thread?


Quote post by tecwrg on 4/20/2015 12:02:00 PM:
Asked and answered, Perfessor!

Why don't you ask a couple dozen more times, see if I change my answer?

4/20/2015 4:41 PM
dahsdebater
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Posted by themergerguy on 4/20/2015 4:33:00 PM (view original):

What percent of strikeouts are ruled sacrifices?

Sacrifices don't count as outs...  But nice try.

List the relative rates of double plays on strikeouts vs. balls in play.

4/20/2015 4:42 PM
MikeT23
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An out isn't recorded on a sacrifice?    Weird.  I thought they were.
4/20/2015 4:48 PM
tecwrg
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He's dumber than BL.
4/20/2015 4:54 PM
dahsdebater
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Not in the batter's line...

Given that "an out is an out" is a phrase applied exclusively to batting lines already accumulated, I'd say they don't count.
4/20/2015 4:55 PM
MikeT23
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I'd say, when an out is recorded, it's an out.    On the three plays tec is speaking of from the Yankee game yesterday, they did not get 4 outs in any inning despite a sacrifice. 
4/20/2015 4:57 PM
MikeT23
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That's taking it a bit far. 
4/20/2015 4:58 PM
MikeT23
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But I do now understand that BL/dahs aren't really arguing baseball, they're arguing semantics.

Perhaps they'd make more sense if WifS opened a Semantics Forum.
4/20/2015 4:59 PM
98greenc5
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For my 2 cents, on both the approach to the shift and strikeout tendency, I think it is all player dependent.

Ideally you'd like a guy who can hit line drives to all fields, with plenty of power, and never strikes out. Not many guys like that.

So some guys are dead pull hitters, other guys mash when they make contact but strike out when they don't. And maybe they do it all in a way that gives them solid hitting metrics overall.

I don't think I want my some of those hitters to change an approach at the plate if it makes for sub-optimal outcome substitutes. I don't want my pull hitter trying to go the other way of it means giving up most of his homer power to avoid making an out to the shifted player. Of course if he has the skill to get "free" singles going the other way he should, or if he does nothing by make outs to the shifted player it will show up in his overall approach.

Similarly if a guy strikes out a lot he's obviously giving up some "lucky" hits or sacrifice outcomes. But if his outcomes on balls in play are good enough to overcome those, I wouldn't want him to attempt contact at all costs.

If the evidence suggests that team runs are negatively correlated with team strikeouts, I have no reason to doubt it. I think the solution would be to acquire guys with that skill set rather than try to force the trait on players you do have. And maybe that was already obvious to everyone else.
4/20/2015 5:01 PM
MikeT23
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To clear things up for The Semantics Brothers...

A ball in play is a struck ball that is waiting to become a hit, an out or an error.    It can't become anything else.
A strikeout is an out.   It's can't become anything else either without an error or passed ball.  And they are infrequent. 

A struck ball that is recorded as an out is still an out.    Has nothing to do with a batting line.   IOW, that's why sac flies are called "productive outs."
Strikeouts are not "productive outs."
4/20/2015 5:02 PM
dahsdebater
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oI still think you're mostly trolling BL in these discussions.  Tec is realy just too dumb to see the difference.  You shouldn't feed into that.

"An out is an out" is basically correct when you analyze a batter's line.  Two guys that hit .300/.400/.550 with equal SB/CS/defense/etc. are basically equivalently valuable guys, even if one of them strikes out 25% of the time and the other one strikes out 8% of the time.  That doesn't mean 25% guy wouldn't have a better line if he reduced his Ks to, say, 15% of the time.  But given that sacrifices don't count as outs on your season stat line, they don't really impact the appropriate context of the "out is an out" analysis.  And I'm pretty sure you realize that, but again, I don't think tec gets it at all.  He's basically got the same capacity for analytical thought as the pile of rocks, concrete, and bricks I dug out of my yard when I planted my garden.

4/20/2015 5:04 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by MikeT23 on 4/20/2015 4:59:00 PM (view original):
But I do now understand that BL/dahs aren't really arguing baseball, they're arguing semantics.

Perhaps they'd make more sense if WifS opened a Semantics Forum.
It isn't semantics.

A ball in play (that hasn't yet become an out) is certainly better than an out.

Once that ball in play becomes an out, it was, on average, no better than any other out.


4/20/2015 5:04 PM
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