Anyway, the point is that we have access to information that makes ADV scouting, on our part, far less valuable.   If the point of these updates is to increase the reason to utilize a budget item, allowing us to see everyone else's budget negates that reason.

FWIW, I can still go back and look at every one of your draft picks.    If you have a history of picking duds, I'll know.   If you do well, I'll know.   If you sign crappy IFA to big $$$, I'll know.   What I don't need to know is if you were doing it with poor scouting, meaning you were just guessing, or good scouting, which could indicate you draft well/poor. 

I think a lot of the resistance to change is simply a resistance to having to do something differently. 

I don't WANT to put money into ADV.   I like how my budgets are distributed.   20m in training/medical.  6-9m in coaching.   10-16m in HS or College but not both.  Money in IFA if I'm in that market or 0-1m if I'm not.    The rest in payroll/prospect depending on my IFA budget.    I like this set-up.  It's how I've been doing things for 6-7 years.   I know how to work the angles to figure out what I need to figure out. 

Now, assuming ADV has some importance, I have to figure out how to get 10-20m into it.   I HAVE to draw it from somewhere.  Or I have to adjust my thinking to find new angles.    Fortunately, that's something EVERYONE will have to do.  

These changes don't affect the players you have.  It might affect the players you'll acquire.    To me, that's the best kind of change.

crickett's gonna love this.

tzentmeyer has a team.  

AND HIS ADV IS 12!!!!!   CONSPIRACY!!!!  NO WONDER THEY'LL ONLY LET US ADJUST BY 4M!!!!!

FWIW, he hasn't checked it since 5/12 at 11 AM.   So, really, it's possible that he hasn't looked at this thread since last week.

I don't have a problem with having to spend money on advanced scouting... Even though I haven't figured out the game in its current state yet, I think it's fun that it's changing. I'm not sure we need to throw out every supplemental source of information about what a player will look like though. to some degree, limiting our information limits our ability to analyze players.

Well let me ask you this? Are you saying that you wouldn't use that information if you had advanced scouting? I wouldn't automatically assume that my advanced scouting was reliable just because I spent money on it. If a guy projected to be great but went 30th in the draft I would pause before assuming it was correct... But if I could see how many owners picking ahead had zero scouting for high scool or college (whichever the player in question was) I could trust the advanced scouting a little more. If you remove all that information then everyone Is just relying on advanced scouting for the most part and there isn't really a way to do a better job than someone else in digging deeper and analyzing it in more depth (yes I understand in some cases you can make educated guesses about budgets, but in some cases you cannot)

If they want to make advanced scouting more important I'm all for that. But I think that removing this particular information cheapens the game a bit. I actually like your suggestion of advanced scouting affecting accuracy of scouting in amateur draft, and the domestic scouting budgets influencing the number if players you see...

I also think maybe there should be a gradual shift. Make the current changes and if advanced scouting is still not important enough make more adjustments. And maybe it shouldn't go too far in the other direction either... The sweet spot along the spectrum makes it important enough to be a strategic choice, but if you make it absolutely indispensable then you limit strategic choices too... So I hope it wouldn't swing that far in the other direction

I'd use all available resources just as I do now.   My point is that I shouldn't know if you spent 0, 10m or 20m in scouting when you picked Johnny Fastball with the 3rd pick.   If I want to know how you've done drafting HS players in the top 10, that info will be there.   And I'll use it(just as I do now).   I don't need to know that you have 108m budgeted to payroll even if I do know that you've spent 66m.   With that info, I know that you can transfer 21m to prospect to go with the 20m you budgeted(which I shouldn't know).   If a big IFA comes along, I know you can spend 41m while I have the most at 43m.   I can decide to take that IFA with 41m + $1 or I can wait knowing that I will get the next one. 

Excuse me if I'm mischaracterizing here, but it seems like you are shifting between a few different arguments for this change...

First you've said that you don't have that information in real life.... Which is probably both true and false. You don't have exact numbers, but you definitely have ideas about the quality of scouting, budgetary constraints, etc... For the most part I think teams know what other teams are bidding on players and a ballpark idea of what they are offering.

You've also said that it lessons the value of advanced scouting. This is true, but a. There's a trade off to eliminating the informatuon for the sake of bolstering the importancof advanced scouting, b. There are other ways to make advanced scouting more important and c. I don't think it would be good if advanced scouting became sooooo important that you have to use it.

This last message says that you have information that you shouldn't have. That may be true, but I'm not sure that it necessarily follows from anything else you've said. I'm also not sure that it makes the game better in some way to have to guess more about things (but I could definitely persuaded that it does)

1.  They have some info but have no concrete numbers beyond payroll used.   I've covered this several times and have no desire to do it again.

2.  The more information we have about the budgets of other teams, the less we need ADV.    It's a simple fact and I don't think you're disputing.   The "trade off" you mention is time and knowledge.   I could do one of two things now:  1.  Invest in ADV and see what I wanted to see with one click.   2.  Take the time to find out how well you drafted, how much you spent on scouting, how well you've developed players, what "oddities" have occurred within your team, etc, etc.   It takes time but allows me to budget 0 in ADV.

3.  The message is the same.  If you want to make ADV relevant, I shouldn't know how you budget.   I can still do the history checking on drafting/developing but, again, I don't know if you're spending 0 or 20m before you draft/sign a player.   I just know where you drafted him and/or how much you paid him.

It's not "guessing".    It's having less information, that I don't think you should have, at hand or paying for that information with ADV.    You're free to "guess" and keep ADV at 0 or invest in ADV for more information.

Think of the NFL.   How much time do you think the Patriots spent agonizing over Jameis Winston?   Sure they scouted him and talked to him.   But they knew they weren't getting him.   So, in HBD terms, they spent 1m scouting him.    On the other hand, Tampa spent 20m scouting him because they wanted him and knew they could get him.   So they broke him down a million times on film, asked his grade school teacher if he was a good kid, took countless calls on the possibility of trading away the pick, spoke with him endlessly, etc, etc. 

This is information we know.   But, in HBD terms, if TB had budgeted 0 in scouting, they might not have even heard of him.   The best player they saw was Kevin White.   So they take Kevin White.    Back to HBD, 8 teams pass on the guy you take with the 9th pick.   All 8 of them have 0 HS scouting and you nab the first HS player.  I don't have to ask "Why did 8 teams pass on that guy?"   I know why.   They didn't scout him.   On the other hand, you had 4m HS, 0 College.   The next 4 picks were HS players taken by teams with 20m HS.   Did you get the best HS guy?   Probably not.   You were just taking the best of what you saw. 

Are you sure they spent that much on Winston? They may have asked his high school teacher if he was a good kid, I'll believe that. But I don't think they got around to asking the cops. Or the local supermarket.

Lack of QB can make you crazy, man.

Well, I'm not trying to persuade you, but as I said, I think that we don't want to make advanced scouting so relevant that you "must" have it, and I think there are other ways to make it more relevant.

In the end I'm happy they made some changes, and I will still play the game if they make the changes you suggested here. I just want to put the other side of the coin out there and suggest that extreme changes beyond those already made be thought out and not rushed into.

Yeah, TB spent a lot of resources on him.  You can't miss with the first pick in the NFL.  Especially at QB.   Ask Houston or Oakland.   Jobs are lost when you muck that one up.   Lots of jobs.